XHooker

Well said. We're all onboard with VVM, CRM, etc., but this new procedure is just talking to talk, and is taking away from situational awareness, not enhancing it. I've been on arrival into DEN when the AP in VNAV PATH decided it was just going to blow through our next altitude, probably because it decided the only way to make the one after that was to blow through it. Everything was right on the FMA, but we had to fall back on SA to prevent an altitude bust. I don't think the FAA would have given us a break just because we made all the callouts and the FMA showed the mode we wanted.

Probe

Airbus FCOM (from Airbus) procedures have the PF calling out every FMA change. I thought it was silly, but after a few months, I noticed a distinct reduction in the amount of mode errors, or they were caught almost immediately.

I am not sure it is a bad idea, and I kind of miss it.

Unfortunately the robots I was flying with turned on the AP at exactly 100' after TO every time. The manual said that was what to do. LOL.

oldmako

Hold on there Tonto,

I flew the bus for 7 years and I don't ever recall reading that. I typically turned the AP on when it suited me, or the current workload. And 90 percent of the time that was somewhere above 18,000'. I was never advised that I was busting SOP. Pretty darn sure I wasn't as plenty of Captains flew the plane throughout the climb as well, and then turned it off again for landing when still many miles from the runway.


From the FM
3.10.6 Normals

Autopilot Operation
The use of the autopilot is encouraged in high traffic areas, when operating in
RVSM airspace, and other situations in which hand flying may cause a high
workload for the other pilot. The PF may engage the autopilot or call for it to be
engaged by the PM as desired. Use of the autopilot is required for:
• Autoland approaches
• PRM approaches
• Nonprecision approaches when the reported ceiling is less than 1000 feet
or the visibility is less than 3 miles
FCU/MCDU INPUTS

cadetdrivr

Probe is talking about the Airbus factory issued FCOM.

Many foreign airlines, as well as some smaller operators, fly strict Airbus procedures while most major US airlines, including UA, write their own FMs to maintain "company" standardizations across fleets.

Shrek

THIS ^^

Other than the US airlines I would dare to say the REST of the world operates the Airbus the FCOM "Airbus" way. It is designed for 250 hr pilots and rightfully so from what I have seen overseas.

aileronjam

Korean Air used the Airbus procedure to call out every FMA change regardless of altitude or phase of flight. It was a bit annoying if you ask me.

badflaps

My feet and fingers got cold just looking at the picture. The art of the three finger start. BAM!

SpecialTracking

We need to start acting like pilots and not like we're flying a sanitary simulator with a dude and a clipboard sitting behind us. Think. Thanks to all who made some very astute comments. I'm all for sop, fom, and fm but they do offer us latitude in a safe operation.

Regarding FMA callouts, if the company says so, then we should. We might not agree but if you think it's a pain now, just wait until you crawl into the simulator next time. I do find it ironic that there is such concern to verbalize FMA's during critical phases like cruise and top of descent, but not flare, idle, rollout during an an autoland when the jet is 30' off the runway and you can't see bupkis.

"MAN FLX SRS RWY" baby!!!

Freight Dawg

Is that a -6?

oldmako

Yep. It's a computer image however, so off a bit.