Fleet Discussion and News
01-15-2017, 05:56 AM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Actually, IMHO, this might be one of the smarter things UAL has done.
The oldest 777s are short-haul "A market" models that were purchased by UAL as domestic hub-to-hub replacements for DC10s. With their very low weights these birds were never intended to fly internationally and were only converted to an international interior config during the darkest days of bankruptcy. Perhaps surprisingly, and as an example, these birds can be weight restricted westbound on transatlantic flights----hardly an awesome situation where other 777s, 767s, and 330s don't break a sweat. There's a reason why Boeing only made a small number of these aircraft and the resale market is in the gutter.
So...we are taking these owned aircraft and putting them back into the markets they were designed to serve while simultaneously increasing domestic capacity, relieving gate/slot congestion, and providing a widebody product (with associated low seat-mile costs) where nearly all our competitors are flying narrow bodies. Win-win-win.
The oldest 777s are short-haul "A market" models that were purchased by UAL as domestic hub-to-hub replacements for DC10s. With their very low weights these birds were never intended to fly internationally and were only converted to an international interior config during the darkest days of bankruptcy. Perhaps surprisingly, and as an example, these birds can be weight restricted westbound on transatlantic flights----hardly an awesome situation where other 777s, 767s, and 330s don't break a sweat. There's a reason why Boeing only made a small number of these aircraft and the resale market is in the gutter.
So...we are taking these owned aircraft and putting them back into the markets they were designed to serve while simultaneously increasing domestic capacity, relieving gate/slot congestion, and providing a widebody product (with associated low seat-mile costs) where nearly all our competitors are flying narrow bodies. Win-win-win.
01-15-2017, 06:16 AM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,701
Actually, IMHO, this might be one of the smarter things UAL has done.
The oldest 777s are short-haul "A market" models that were purchased by UAL as domestic hub-to-hub replacements for DC10s. With their very low weights these birds were never intended to fly internationally and were only converted to an international interior config during the darkest days of bankruptcy. Perhaps surprisingly, and as an example, these birds can be weight restricted westbound on transatlantic flights----hardly an awesome situation where other 777s, 767s, and 330s don't break a sweat. There's a reason why Boeing only made a small number of these aircraft and the resale market is in the gutter.
So...we are taking these owned aircraft and putting them back into the markets they were designed to serve while simultaneously increasing domestic capacity, relieving gate/slot congestion, and providing a widebody product (with associated low seat-mile costs) where nearly all our competitors are flying narrow bodies. Win-win-win.
The oldest 777s are short-haul "A market" models that were purchased by UAL as domestic hub-to-hub replacements for DC10s. With their very low weights these birds were never intended to fly internationally and were only converted to an international interior config during the darkest days of bankruptcy. Perhaps surprisingly, and as an example, these birds can be weight restricted westbound on transatlantic flights----hardly an awesome situation where other 777s, 767s, and 330s don't break a sweat. There's a reason why Boeing only made a small number of these aircraft and the resale market is in the gutter.
So...we are taking these owned aircraft and putting them back into the markets they were designed to serve while simultaneously increasing domestic capacity, relieving gate/slot congestion, and providing a widebody product (with associated low seat-mile costs) where nearly all our competitors are flying narrow bodies. Win-win-win.
01-15-2017, 06:50 AM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
Actually, IMHO, this might be one of the smarter things UAL has done.
The oldest 777s are short-haul "A market" models that were purchased by UAL as domestic hub-to-hub replacements for DC10s. With their very low weights these birds were never intended to fly internationally and were only converted to an international interior config during the darkest days of bankruptcy. Perhaps surprisingly, and as an example, these birds can be weight restricted westbound on transatlantic flights----hardly an awesome situation where other 777s, 767s, and 330s don't break a sweat. There's a reason why Boeing only made a small number of these aircraft and the resale market is in the gutter.
So...we are taking these owned aircraft and putting them back into the markets they were designed to serve while simultaneously increasing domestic capacity, relieving gate/slot congestion, and providing a widebody product (with associated low seat-mile costs) where nearly all our competitors are flying narrow bodies. Win-win-win.
The oldest 777s are short-haul "A market" models that were purchased by UAL as domestic hub-to-hub replacements for DC10s. With their very low weights these birds were never intended to fly internationally and were only converted to an international interior config during the darkest days of bankruptcy. Perhaps surprisingly, and as an example, these birds can be weight restricted westbound on transatlantic flights----hardly an awesome situation where other 777s, 767s, and 330s don't break a sweat. There's a reason why Boeing only made a small number of these aircraft and the resale market is in the gutter.
So...we are taking these owned aircraft and putting them back into the markets they were designed to serve while simultaneously increasing domestic capacity, relieving gate/slot congestion, and providing a widebody product (with associated low seat-mile costs) where nearly all our competitors are flying narrow bodies. Win-win-win.
You can be weight restricted domestically. I've had a couple of times now where we were landing weight restricted. Full pax, some cargo, and just a little bit of weather and you are right up on max landing weight. Range isn't an issue unless you are talking about Europe to Chicago or farther.
They cannot make it across the Pacific without stopping in Guam.
However, domestically, this is what these planes were intended for, DC-10 replacements. Smart move to get the guppies off the hub to hub flying.
01-15-2017, 07:52 AM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: B756 FO
Posts: 1,288
You can be weight restricted domestically. I've had a couple of times now where we were landing weight restricted. Full pax, some cargo, and just a little bit of weather and you are right up on max landing weight. Range isn't an issue unless you are talking about Europe to Chicago or farther.
01-15-2017, 03:10 PM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
Funny you mention that. The wife and I had fun trying to get on a rather open A model out of FRA-ORD in January last year. Little bit of weather in ORD and the flight was heavily weight restricted. I laughed when the agents told me that as I looked at the seat map with 20 open in biz and maybe 20 open in the back. Only way we both got out was me riding as an OMC. Which the LH agents fought me on until a supervisor told them I could go as an OMC on a weight restricted flight. Fun times...
About 10 years ago, at UAL, an OMC was reclassified as part of the operating empty weight of the plane and therefore not subject to weight restrictions. Genesis of this, a few 400 guys missed commute flights, and it was changed.
01-28-2017, 10:17 AM
#190
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
It has been this way for close to 20 years that I know of. Just guessing, but I think this was actually a shrewd legal/contract move on ALPA's part:
At UAL, jumpseaters were considered part of the ZFW of the airplane. It didn't make sense to me as a new-hire; I just thought "OK, that's how they do it."
But by designating the jumpseater as part of the crew, he becomes a non-removable part of the dispatch. This is true whether the J/Ser is UA, or another carrier.
It means if the flight gets weight-restricted, other stuff/people come off before the jumpseater does.
That's my interpretation. It helps commuters.
At UAL, jumpseaters were considered part of the ZFW of the airplane. It didn't make sense to me as a new-hire; I just thought "OK, that's how they do it."
But by designating the jumpseater as part of the crew, he becomes a non-removable part of the dispatch. This is true whether the J/Ser is UA, or another carrier.
It means if the flight gets weight-restricted, other stuff/people come off before the jumpseater does.
That's my interpretation. It helps commuters.
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