PBS How to Guide...?
11-08-2016, 05:33 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
I just spent the money on the bidding service.
I have had more than a few talks with pref bid over the years as well as PBS trainers. I honestly don't get it. I haven't been able to decipher the methodology behind PBS.
When I had a phone conversation with one of the bid nav guys, I was able to explain to him my bidding goals, and priorities next month. He called me back and explained why my bid would need to be adjusted. He did the work for me, and then had me log in to view it and go over it.
Turns out, my understanding of PBS was 180 degrees out of what PBS is actually designed to do. The reason behind this is, (I think), is because when CAL got PBS on property I was on the B777 in iAH. We only had 3 trips, and I only wanted NRT. My bidding was easy. Award NRT, maximum 3 times a month. I didn't care where my days off were as long as I got 21 or 22 of them. Today, the base, equipment, and status are different, and I never really had to learn the subtle nuances and logic behind PBS.
I really don't want to invest too much time in PBS. I was prepared to insert about 6 very simple bid groups. After my talk with the bidding specialist at bid-nav, I had 16 bid groups that I fully understood, and felt comfortable with. Tired of giving my good trips and giving away the lifestyle that I should have to those more junior than me.
Bottom line: PBS is too complex. It sucks that I have to get a program to interpret and interface with another program, but it's worth a try to see what I get.
PBS is the new Robin Hood of the airline industry, takes from the senior, and gives to the junior. It's only an absence management system, and at the end of the day it cares not how senior you are, but how many keystrokes and commands you inserted. When junior guys are getting major holidays off that they couldn't get via vacation bidding, or couldn't get with paper lines, I know there's a problem.
I don't need some snot-nosed PBS whiz kid to tell me I am doing it wrong, and then taking it for granted that I know cobalt and fortran. When Al Gore invented the internet I was already out of college, so lengthy discussions about PBS aren't in my wheel-house.
11-08-2016, 06:44 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 862
agreed. But the IRS doesn't allow you to deduct the beer.
I just spent the money on the bidding service.
I have had more than a few talks with pref bid over the years as well as PBS trainers. I honestly don't get it. I haven't been able to decipher the methodology behind PBS.
When I had a phone conversation with one of the bid nav guys, I was able to explain to him my bidding goals, and priorities next month. He called me back and explained why my bid would need to be adjusted. He did the work for me, and then had me log in to view it and go over it.
Turns out, my understanding of PBS was 180 degrees out of what PBS is actually designed to do. The reason behind this is, (I think), is because when CAL got PBS on property I was on the B777 in iAH. We only had 3 trips, and I only wanted NRT. My bidding was easy. Award NRT, maximum 3 times a month. I didn't care where my days off were as long as I got 21 or 22 of them. Today, the base, equipment, and status are different, and I never really had to learn the subtle nuances and logic behind PBS.
I really don't want to invest too much time in PBS. I was prepared to insert about 6 very simple bid groups. After my talk with the bidding specialist at bid-nav, I had 16 bid groups that I fully understood, and felt comfortable with. Tired of giving my good trips and giving away the lifestyle that I should have to those more junior than me.
Bottom line: PBS is too complex. It sucks that I have to get a program to interpret and interface with another program, but it's worth a try to see what I get.
PBS is the new Robin Hood of the airline industry, takes from the senior, and gives to the junior. It's only an absence management system, and at the end of the day it cares not how senior you are, but how many keystrokes and commands you inserted. When junior guys are getting major holidays off that they couldn't get via vacation bidding, or couldn't get with paper lines, I know there's a problem.
I don't need some snot-nosed PBS whiz kid to tell me I am doing it wrong, and then taking it for granted that I know cobalt and fortran. When Al Gore invented the internet I was already out of college, so lengthy discussions about PBS aren't in my wheel-house.
I just spent the money on the bidding service.
I have had more than a few talks with pref bid over the years as well as PBS trainers. I honestly don't get it. I haven't been able to decipher the methodology behind PBS.
When I had a phone conversation with one of the bid nav guys, I was able to explain to him my bidding goals, and priorities next month. He called me back and explained why my bid would need to be adjusted. He did the work for me, and then had me log in to view it and go over it.
Turns out, my understanding of PBS was 180 degrees out of what PBS is actually designed to do. The reason behind this is, (I think), is because when CAL got PBS on property I was on the B777 in iAH. We only had 3 trips, and I only wanted NRT. My bidding was easy. Award NRT, maximum 3 times a month. I didn't care where my days off were as long as I got 21 or 22 of them. Today, the base, equipment, and status are different, and I never really had to learn the subtle nuances and logic behind PBS.
I really don't want to invest too much time in PBS. I was prepared to insert about 6 very simple bid groups. After my talk with the bidding specialist at bid-nav, I had 16 bid groups that I fully understood, and felt comfortable with. Tired of giving my good trips and giving away the lifestyle that I should have to those more junior than me.
Bottom line: PBS is too complex. It sucks that I have to get a program to interpret and interface with another program, but it's worth a try to see what I get.
PBS is the new Robin Hood of the airline industry, takes from the senior, and gives to the junior. It's only an absence management system, and at the end of the day it cares not how senior you are, but how many keystrokes and commands you inserted. When junior guys are getting major holidays off that they couldn't get via vacation bidding, or couldn't get with paper lines, I know there's a problem.
I don't need some snot-nosed PBS whiz kid to tell me I am doing it wrong, and then taking it for granted that I know cobalt and fortran. When Al Gore invented the internet I was already out of college, so lengthy discussions about PBS aren't in my wheel-house.
11-08-2016, 09:09 AM
#35
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
11-08-2016, 09:13 AM
#36
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 17
Videos are on the prefbid website - click on the media tab at the top.
Welcome to PrefBid.com ? Index page
Welcome to PrefBid.com ? Index page
11-08-2016, 09:19 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,173
agreed. But the IRS doesn't allow you to deduct the beer.
I just spent the money on the bidding service.
I have had more than a few talks with pref bid over the years as well as PBS trainers. I honestly don't get it. I haven't been able to decipher the methodology behind PBS.
When I had a phone conversation with one of the bid nav guys, I was able to explain to him my bidding goals, and priorities next month. He called me back and explained why my bid would need to be adjusted. He did the work for me, and then had me log in to view it and go over it.
Turns out, my understanding of PBS was 180 degrees out of what PBS is actually designed to do. The reason behind this is, (I think), is because when CAL got PBS on property I was on the B777 in iAH. We only had 3 trips, and I only wanted NRT. My bidding was easy. Award NRT, maximum 3 times a month. I didn't care where my days off were as long as I got 21 or 22 of them. Today, the base, equipment, and status are different, and I never really had to learn the subtle nuances and logic behind PBS.
I really don't want to invest too much time in PBS. I was prepared to insert about 6 very simple bid groups. After my talk with the bidding specialist at bid-nav, I had 16 bid groups that I fully understood, and felt comfortable with. Tired of giving my good trips and giving away the lifestyle that I should have to those more junior than me.
Bottom line: PBS is too complex. It sucks that I have to get a program to interpret and interface with another program, but it's worth a try to see what I get.
PBS is the new Robin Hood of the airline industry, takes from the senior, and gives to the junior. It's only an absence management system, and at the end of the day it cares not how senior you are, but how many keystrokes and commands you inserted. When junior guys are getting major holidays off that they couldn't get via vacation bidding, or couldn't get with paper lines, I know there's a problem.
I don't need some snot-nosed PBS whiz kid to tell me I am doing it wrong, and then taking it for granted that I know cobalt and fortran. When Al Gore invented the internet I was already out of college, so lengthy discussions about PBS aren't in my wheel-house.
I just spent the money on the bidding service.
I have had more than a few talks with pref bid over the years as well as PBS trainers. I honestly don't get it. I haven't been able to decipher the methodology behind PBS.
When I had a phone conversation with one of the bid nav guys, I was able to explain to him my bidding goals, and priorities next month. He called me back and explained why my bid would need to be adjusted. He did the work for me, and then had me log in to view it and go over it.
Turns out, my understanding of PBS was 180 degrees out of what PBS is actually designed to do. The reason behind this is, (I think), is because when CAL got PBS on property I was on the B777 in iAH. We only had 3 trips, and I only wanted NRT. My bidding was easy. Award NRT, maximum 3 times a month. I didn't care where my days off were as long as I got 21 or 22 of them. Today, the base, equipment, and status are different, and I never really had to learn the subtle nuances and logic behind PBS.
I really don't want to invest too much time in PBS. I was prepared to insert about 6 very simple bid groups. After my talk with the bidding specialist at bid-nav, I had 16 bid groups that I fully understood, and felt comfortable with. Tired of giving my good trips and giving away the lifestyle that I should have to those more junior than me.
Bottom line: PBS is too complex. It sucks that I have to get a program to interpret and interface with another program, but it's worth a try to see what I get.
PBS is the new Robin Hood of the airline industry, takes from the senior, and gives to the junior. It's only an absence management system, and at the end of the day it cares not how senior you are, but how many keystrokes and commands you inserted. When junior guys are getting major holidays off that they couldn't get via vacation bidding, or couldn't get with paper lines, I know there's a problem.
I don't need some snot-nosed PBS whiz kid to tell me I am doing it wrong, and then taking it for granted that I know cobalt and fortran. When Al Gore invented the internet I was already out of college, so lengthy discussions about PBS aren't in my wheel-house.
It's your fault for not understanding the PBS priorities. Wait, it's my fault PBS violates seniority? He defended the lousy system!! The PBS gurus are now part of the problem. They have lost site of the goals and just say that's how it works.
When everyone does their contract surveys, make sure you mention the bidding system. It wasn't even on the Council 34 survey, I made sure I added it in comments. If we don't make it a priority, it'll never get fixed. Kind of like the reserve system. To everyone: you are doing the survey, right??
Remember, "We'll fix it in the next contract?" Well that was the last time, now is now!
11-08-2016, 02:39 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,085
This is on the prefbid forum and was written by a guy that understands the system very well. It is in response to a question about "solutions constraints" as a reason for bid group failures. It also offers an interesting take on PBS vs. published line bidding like we did in the old days:
Overall Solution Constraints essentially means that you aren't senior enough for it to build the line you wanted, even though there may have been trips available that would have worked.
I'll explain how that works under PBS and then compare it to the way lines were constructed under the old system.
Under PBS, the company uses a formula to set the G-Line, above which every bidder who wants one is guaranteed a line. In order to meet that requirement, PBS looks ahead after constructing lines for each bidder to be sure there are enough trips left to complete the overall solution for the entire BES. At some point down the seniority list, bidders ask for lines that, if awarded, would not allow PBS to complete the overall solution. That seems to be what happened in your case. If PBS awarded you a line based on this bid group, it could not complete the solution for the entire BES.
Now, this isn't really much different from what we saw with preconstructed lines except that the process is visible instead of behind the scenes. When our line construction guys build lines, they can only build so many high time max day off lines before they have to start building 'less desirable' lines. There may be pairings available for them to build better lines, but if they did, there wouldn't be enough pairings to build the required number of lines to complete the solution.
One way to check this is to look at the preconstructed lines. You could cherry pick trips from several 'less desireble' lines to build a higher time line with more days off. But that line wasn't constructed because it wouldn't allow the solution to be completed.
PBS places an emphasis on seniority by allowing senior bidders to do the cherry picking until it reaches that point where solution constraints kick in. When you find that a bid group failed due to solution constraints, that's essentially the same as saying that your not senior enough to hold what you wanted. Just like what we had with preconstructed lines, only a certain number of bidders were able to hold the 'desirable' lines while less senior bidders would get lines that may not be as desirable.
Hope that makes sense. The fact that we can see the solution constraints now where we couldn't before has caused some frustrations, but the transparancy is the only real difference. The constraints were always there but handled behind the scenes.
Overall Solution Constraints essentially means that you aren't senior enough for it to build the line you wanted, even though there may have been trips available that would have worked.
I'll explain how that works under PBS and then compare it to the way lines were constructed under the old system.
Under PBS, the company uses a formula to set the G-Line, above which every bidder who wants one is guaranteed a line. In order to meet that requirement, PBS looks ahead after constructing lines for each bidder to be sure there are enough trips left to complete the overall solution for the entire BES. At some point down the seniority list, bidders ask for lines that, if awarded, would not allow PBS to complete the overall solution. That seems to be what happened in your case. If PBS awarded you a line based on this bid group, it could not complete the solution for the entire BES.
Now, this isn't really much different from what we saw with preconstructed lines except that the process is visible instead of behind the scenes. When our line construction guys build lines, they can only build so many high time max day off lines before they have to start building 'less desirable' lines. There may be pairings available for them to build better lines, but if they did, there wouldn't be enough pairings to build the required number of lines to complete the solution.
One way to check this is to look at the preconstructed lines. You could cherry pick trips from several 'less desireble' lines to build a higher time line with more days off. But that line wasn't constructed because it wouldn't allow the solution to be completed.
PBS places an emphasis on seniority by allowing senior bidders to do the cherry picking until it reaches that point where solution constraints kick in. When you find that a bid group failed due to solution constraints, that's essentially the same as saying that your not senior enough to hold what you wanted. Just like what we had with preconstructed lines, only a certain number of bidders were able to hold the 'desirable' lines while less senior bidders would get lines that may not be as desirable.
Hope that makes sense. The fact that we can see the solution constraints now where we couldn't before has caused some frustrations, but the transparancy is the only real difference. The constraints were always there but handled behind the scenes.
11-08-2016, 03:08 PM
#39
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
This is on the prefbid forum and was written by a guy that understands the system very well. It is in response to a question about "solutions constraints" as a reason for bid group failures. It also offers an interesting take on PBS vs. published line bidding like we did in the old days:
Overall Solution Constraints essentially means that you aren't senior enough for it to build the line you wanted, even though there may have been trips available that would have worked.
I'll explain how that works under PBS and then compare it to the way lines were constructed under the old system.
Under PBS, the company uses a formula to set the G-Line, above which every bidder who wants one is guaranteed a line. In order to meet that requirement, PBS looks ahead after constructing lines for each bidder to be sure there are enough trips left to complete the overall solution for the entire BES. At some point down the seniority list, bidders ask for lines that, if awarded, would not allow PBS to complete the overall solution. That seems to be what happened in your case. If PBS awarded you a line based on this bid group, it could not complete the solution for the entire BES.
Now, this isn't really much different from what we saw with preconstructed lines except that the process is visible instead of behind the scenes. When our line construction guys build lines, they can only build so many high time max day off lines before they have to start building 'less desirable' lines. There may be pairings available for them to build better lines, but if they did, there wouldn't be enough pairings to build the required number of lines to complete the solution.
One way to check this is to look at the preconstructed lines. You could cherry pick trips from several 'less desireble' lines to build a higher time line with more days off. But that line wasn't constructed because it wouldn't allow the solution to be completed.
PBS places an emphasis on seniority by allowing senior bidders to do the cherry picking until it reaches that point where solution constraints kick in. When you find that a bid group failed due to solution constraints, that's essentially the same as saying that your not senior enough to hold what you wanted. Just like what we had with preconstructed lines, only a certain number of bidders were able to hold the 'desirable' lines while less senior bidders would get lines that may not be as desirable.
Hope that makes sense. The fact that we can see the solution constraints now where we couldn't before has caused some frustrations, but the transparancy is the only real difference. The constraints were always there but handled behind the scenes.
Overall Solution Constraints essentially means that you aren't senior enough for it to build the line you wanted, even though there may have been trips available that would have worked.
I'll explain how that works under PBS and then compare it to the way lines were constructed under the old system.
Under PBS, the company uses a formula to set the G-Line, above which every bidder who wants one is guaranteed a line. In order to meet that requirement, PBS looks ahead after constructing lines for each bidder to be sure there are enough trips left to complete the overall solution for the entire BES. At some point down the seniority list, bidders ask for lines that, if awarded, would not allow PBS to complete the overall solution. That seems to be what happened in your case. If PBS awarded you a line based on this bid group, it could not complete the solution for the entire BES.
Now, this isn't really much different from what we saw with preconstructed lines except that the process is visible instead of behind the scenes. When our line construction guys build lines, they can only build so many high time max day off lines before they have to start building 'less desirable' lines. There may be pairings available for them to build better lines, but if they did, there wouldn't be enough pairings to build the required number of lines to complete the solution.
One way to check this is to look at the preconstructed lines. You could cherry pick trips from several 'less desireble' lines to build a higher time line with more days off. But that line wasn't constructed because it wouldn't allow the solution to be completed.
PBS places an emphasis on seniority by allowing senior bidders to do the cherry picking until it reaches that point where solution constraints kick in. When you find that a bid group failed due to solution constraints, that's essentially the same as saying that your not senior enough to hold what you wanted. Just like what we had with preconstructed lines, only a certain number of bidders were able to hold the 'desirable' lines while less senior bidders would get lines that may not be as desirable.
Hope that makes sense. The fact that we can see the solution constraints now where we couldn't before has caused some frustrations, but the transparancy is the only real difference. The constraints were always there but handled behind the scenes.
*We've given the PBS trainers a list of insults and excuses to hurl at you in case you call complaining or asking questions about why you didn't get a line, certain days off, or that trip someone junior to you got. They will read one or more from that list when you call.
11-08-2016, 03:48 PM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 216
the pbs folks answered my "huh? a guy junior to me got the Honolulu trip I wanted" with "your bid groups are just one of the factors the solver looks at in building your schedule"
to which I always reply "my assigned schedule is just one of the factors I look at in deciding whether I need to go to work"
🙄
to which I always reply "my assigned schedule is just one of the factors I look at in deciding whether I need to go to work"
🙄
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