BMEP100

Uh, don't blame ALPA for the MPG/PTC mess in the contract that did not exist before that contract, then complain that their lame attempts to fix it between contracts failed, so we all loose money in vacation months.... make work for the union.

This is called falling on your sword- except it's not the MEC taking in the gut- it is the line pilots.

Flytolive

Hyberbolic nonsense. Makes one wonder if some pilots will be ready when real sacrifice is required.

UALinIAH

We don't "all lose money in vacation months." I don't pick up stuff when I have vacation. I actually like time off. The only people losing money are the ones trying to play "max the W2". If you fly your award you don't lose a penny. Enjoy the time not wearing polyester and let your blood pressure calm.

Wasn't that one of the big "gets" with the extension? More per hour means you can work less for the same pay?

AxlF16

You don't loose (sic) anything UNLESS you pick up time. At that point you are CHOOSING to work for free. That would be stupid IMO.

I guess you're just fine with contractual non-compliance - as long as it benefits YOU?

If you need the money that badly, maybe take your extra time off and get a job as a Walmart greeter.

SpecialTracking

That's an instrumental concept of why we belong to a union.

MasterOfPuppets

I'm on RSV...I don't loose a thing. As others stated above go on vacation you make plenty of money.

SpecialTracking

At what point do obvious contractual issues not codified in the contract become too much? One, two, ten, twenty, or only those that possess near term financial impact? Once you cross the line it's hard to go back.

BMEP100

Some perspective here, without getting off a rabbit trail. In the first 20 years of my 40 year career I sat on both sides of the table as rep, and negotiator.

This issue came about because the union wanted it fixed. The company did not come to the union hat in hand asking for something. The company was perfectly happy with the way it was it was before.

Does anyone here really believe that Howard Attarian or Ocscar really cares if I make less money in vacation month? You really think they are worried that we won't pick up an concessional trip in a vacation month, or that I might bid for a higher line value as a result of the unions demand we stop getting paid? If so, you need your head examined.

So, since the MEC did not get their way- they are taking us back to company perfectly happy- the way it was before the union asked the company to fix it. And they have done it in an emotional, hasty and poorly thought out " We're gonna show you" manner. That is juvenile. That is falling on your sword. They could have said to the company and the line pilots, that " Starting Jan 1, there will be no PTC up pay in vacation months. Do your bidding, vacation and PBS accordingly. They didn't, consider the line pilots they are supposed to be looking out for. They put themselves first. That is the rub.

This is not a job action, it is just neglect.

Dave Fitzgerald

I'm sorry you think you were losing money. As has already been stated, you were taking advantage of something the company was doing outside of the CBA. You take the time to do the E-mail and get your money. Good on you, and a good deal. But that's it, it's only a good deal and not in the CBA. One of ALPA's tenets is to defend the contract. How can you say this is not what they are in fact doing? I'm sure ALPA knew full well what the result of this change would be, including some who will no longer benefit from this loop hole. Notice I did not say, lose money.

This is ugly business to be sure. Do you think the company was doing this out of the goodness of their heart? They did this because it was the absolutely minimum they thought they could get away with and keep from paying everyone the plus up. The minimum. Make it the pilots problem, and I guarantee the company was making lot more in free flying than they were paying out. Pilots are lazy, and prone to not pay attention to union communications--which you would have had to do to take advantage of the plus up. (Me included.)

So, put the shoe on the other foot. The company very well could have decided to do this exact thing on their own. Not to pay the plus up. Now they have every pilot in this situation working for free! You think the company isn't doing this intentionally? They'd love to have us al working for free. Yes I think Howard knows exactly what he is doing.

I applaud the MEC for taking this action in an attempt to correct this situation and essentially playing favorites. Not a friends of Fred program, but darn close to it. We need to have a level playing field and not one where the company can play favorites.

The company has skated on favorites for a long time, and hasn't figured out that that time is over. For God's sake, we still don't have elements of the contract implemented years ago! When does it stop? This is a one time deal and probably the only time you get caught in the middle. ALPA obviously thought one time loss is on balance a chance they should take vs. getting the benefit for all in an LOA.

We had the golden opportunity to change stuff like this during the extension, but the majority thought other wise, and now we are stuck with it for a while more. I plan on telling my LEC exactly what I think we need to concentrate on in the next negotiations. If we can't get a LOA, this would be a good candidate.

BMEP100

So Dave,,,, after all this. meetings communications, pay claims, emails and pilots getting paid more than before..... we are back to square one. And you see this as a good thing?

No, the unions first job is not to defend the contract, it is to look out for the interests of the pilots. As sometimes is the case- those interests can be divergent. In this case the contract was NOT in the best interests of the pilots- and the company was okay with that.

So, the interests of the pilots were temporarily improved- by the agreement of the union and company- now back to the way it was.

What a complete waste of time and resources- unless you are on flight pay loss and expenses.