USSERA suit Vs. UAL
10-19-2016, 02:51 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
I have a big problem with UA not giving pilots their correct benefits they deserve when they return from active duty (which is what the suit is about), but I do not have a problem at all with UA verifying status (absolutely allowable by USERRA law) especially if it is a case such as one outlined above.
10-19-2016, 03:45 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 953
That is how things work in lots of guard/reserve units.
If orders can't get cut til last minute the military member is left dangling until the schedule and aircraft availability are confirmed. Hence, lots of last minute stuff happens in the guard and reserve today that didn't happen 20 years ago.
The entire guard/reserve system is last minute. So, I don't see it as an intentional screw job. I see it as the federal side isn't giving the guard/reserve enough resources to do the job, staff the operation, and fulfill their missions in a timely manner. The ops tempo and unique unit requirements often mean last minute requests happen all too frequently. It's not just affecting PBS organizations like airlines. Same goes for the postal service, and Mr. Goodwrench.
The other side of it that we lost sight of is that the guard and reserve units are being asked to do much, for too long. Both in sustained operations, and in deployment support.
If orders can't get cut til last minute the military member is left dangling until the schedule and aircraft availability are confirmed. Hence, lots of last minute stuff happens in the guard and reserve today that didn't happen 20 years ago.
The entire guard/reserve system is last minute. So, I don't see it as an intentional screw job. I see it as the federal side isn't giving the guard/reserve enough resources to do the job, staff the operation, and fulfill their missions in a timely manner. The ops tempo and unique unit requirements often mean last minute requests happen all too frequently. It's not just affecting PBS organizations like airlines. Same goes for the postal service, and Mr. Goodwrench.
The other side of it that we lost sight of is that the guard and reserve units are being asked to do much, for too long. Both in sustained operations, and in deployment support.
But if you are asking me to accept that a pilot that had a trip trade request in for the 9am run that didn't get awarded (due to coverage I assume) miraculously got a call from his unit needing him the following Monday, which would conflict with the trip he couldn't drop in the above trade, but not conflict with the trip he was trying to pick up, I am going to have to say BS. Is that possible, sure and pigs might fly. I wouldn't have bought such a story when I was in the Military and I won't buy it now.
This is not criminal court and I am not looking for Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. I am just saying that if one of the sailors that worked for me when I was in, pulled this kind of stunt to get out of a duty they were due to have, there would have been hell to pay. Is it criminal? No, but it sure is an example of why articles 133 and 134 of the UCMJ exist! Fortunately for this guy, this is just United, so all he is ignoring is the ALPA code of Ethics!
Again, I am just saying that when you see a couple of these you have to understand that it gives the whole group a black eye. I know most do it right, but those few that don't, make it a bad situation for all!
10-19-2016, 06:03 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
I understand your position. Here's the thing. The pilots Commander has directed the pilot in question to be available to perform his/her military duty, and has further directed his/her civilian employer to make him/her available if there is a conflict. It's not a "stunt." It's military necessity.
I would love a PEK trip. Sounds mucho productive. I'd be crazy to drop that trip to go hang out at the guard and lose money for a few days. If my unit had me in an upgrade program, or a particular course of training, I would be obliged to perform the military duty.
Some of the Commanders understand PBS and some don't. Some don't care. In the freight dog days of the 90's I had a chief pilot that would assign me trips to intentionally conflict with military duty in an attempt to make me resign my guard job, even though my seniority had me off.
It's a PBS thing. Prior to PBS, military leave was never an issue to the best of my research either at CAL, or UAL. The only reason it's an issue now, is because we have Carmen PBS and it's rule sets and hold over language from the CAL ways and days.
10-19-2016, 06:31 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 953
I understand your position. Here's the thing. The pilots Commander has directed the pilot in question to be available to perform his/her military duty, and has further directed his/her civilian employer to make him/her available if there is a conflict. It's not a "stunt." It's military necessity.
I would love a PEK trip. Sounds mucho productive. I'd be crazy to drop that trip to go hang out at the guard and lose money for a few days. If my unit had me in an upgrade program, or a particular course of training, I would be obliged to perform the military duty.
Some of the Commanders understand PBS and some don't. Some don't care. In the freight dog days of the 90's I had a chief pilot that would assign me trips to intentionally conflict with military duty in an attempt to make me resign my guard job, even though my seniority had me off.
It's a PBS thing. Prior to PBS, military leave was never an issue to the best of my research either at CAL, or UAL. The only reason it's an issue now, is because we have Carmen PBS and it's rule sets and hold over language from the CAL ways and days.
I would love a PEK trip. Sounds mucho productive. I'd be crazy to drop that trip to go hang out at the guard and lose money for a few days. If my unit had me in an upgrade program, or a particular course of training, I would be obliged to perform the military duty.
Some of the Commanders understand PBS and some don't. Some don't care. In the freight dog days of the 90's I had a chief pilot that would assign me trips to intentionally conflict with military duty in an attempt to make me resign my guard job, even though my seniority had me off.
It's a PBS thing. Prior to PBS, military leave was never an issue to the best of my research either at CAL, or UAL. The only reason it's an issue now, is because we have Carmen PBS and it's rule sets and hold over language from the CAL ways and days.
The pilot in question has been at UA for 20 years, so I am guessing that at a minimum he has been in the MIL for 28 years! I am not questioning the legality by USERRA of his MIL drop. I am quite sure that his commander (who may be himself) will provide orders for this duty. I am quite sure that if push came to shove he would be able to document he was on military duty next Monday.
You can call this a "necessity" and by USERRA it would be. That does not make it ethical. If I called my unit and said "hey have you got anything I can do on Monday" and they said "sure." It can be made legal, but I wouldn't call it ethical.
You say you would love a PEK trip, and that is my point with this whole conversation. He didn't have a MIL drop in until he knew he could pick up an even better trip, so it wouldn't cost him any cash, in fact it made him more money in less days worked. Great for him, just unethical by my standards. Yours may differ!
Generally speaking, when a guy or gal puts in MIL I don't even think twice about it. But when it is this in my face, I point it out to show how one bad apple can spoil the bunch.
10-19-2016, 09:15 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
This thread has a lot of echos of threads on similar issues at other places like FDX and Delta. Management doesn't require a PBS system to be aggressive with their pilots--FDX has line schedules but hired a retired pilot and retired 1 star in the reserves to call units to ask about pilot duties. Most guys have clued their units in, but when he called he would ID himself as BG xxxxxxx. Not sure how much effect he had but the intent was to put a strong, credible former reservist to be "good cop" when he called to speak to commanders.
The fact is it doesn't matter what you did in the past, USERRA governs the rules. Most units appeared to have put a filter on this guy, but sharing that so you don't think CAL was the only demon out there. Read the Delta threat on MLOA and you'll see similar stuff. My suggestion is Mil Affairs guys at the Big 3 and FDX and SWA need to get their own teleconference and share intel. The companies are doing it--so they should too.
Over the last few years, my words to guys who are traditional Guardsmen and Reservists has morphed. It is now simple: Don't tell anyone in the cockpit what you do on your time off. You don't have say "**** off, its none of your business" but you don't have to gleefully describe your last F-16 alert scramble or C-130 trip to the sandbox. Remember the new guy rule of "never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole..." I haven't always lived that--but wished I had complied more.
The problem is you face too many unknown threats. Everyone knows management is a threat, and will try to harass or intimidate you when they think they can get away with it to reduce their reserve utilization and make their matrix look better. It ain't personal--but it still irks you. But its a known threat.
The threats you may not recognize....are your co-workers. These threads show a few....
The guy who lives in domicile hoping to not get called on reserve. He huffs and puffs when the phone rings calling him out...and he resents you...
The guy who retired to get "security" while you bailed at 7/10/12/14 years and will never have your seniority. He has no reserve duties so he works at the whim of the company, and he may resent your "good deal" of still flying tactical stuff and getting the odd day off here and there. He may have wanted to be you--but didn't have the balls to bail. Not every 20 year guy fits the mold--but there are some.
The guy who rushed your Guard unit but was not offered a position. Maybe he went somewhere else, or never got hired anywhere. He hates your guts, and you don't even know it....
The guy who didn't have 20/20 but knew every fighter ever made, watched Baa Black Sheep religiously, but never could pass a military medical and worked his way up through the regionals...
My point is as a new hire we typically look at our more senior co-workers and see guys we envy--with seniority, experience, and good deals. What you may not understand is some are envious of you too...and sometimes envy causes people to do some pretty nasty things, or work against you behind the scenes.
So--don't do anything that creates envy. Everyone that flys is cooler than you. Go do your job. Drop mil leave when you need it. Fly your missions and be a bro to your squadron mates. Don't do anything stupid or illegal. Preserve your job(s). But do not expect to make friends. Coworkers are coworkers. Friends are friends. Courteous to all--friends with very few is a good mantra for the TG/TRs out there.
Otherwise--expect guys like GoCats to ******* you when they can. We appreciate your service....until it stops me from getting a good deal. Nobody gives a damn about your deployment while you are gone--they are at the park, the mall, or the big game.... While you are in the sim working on C-130 EPs or prepping for your mission commander checkride in your Viper, they are at the lake with family. The reward for all that extra stress, risk, and time, is the ire of your flight management and many of your own co-workers.
So--you need to learn to quietly say "**** you. I serve my God, my family, and my nation. I cannot make everyone happy, even though I try." Then go about your business.
The fact is it doesn't matter what you did in the past, USERRA governs the rules. Most units appeared to have put a filter on this guy, but sharing that so you don't think CAL was the only demon out there. Read the Delta threat on MLOA and you'll see similar stuff. My suggestion is Mil Affairs guys at the Big 3 and FDX and SWA need to get their own teleconference and share intel. The companies are doing it--so they should too.
Over the last few years, my words to guys who are traditional Guardsmen and Reservists has morphed. It is now simple: Don't tell anyone in the cockpit what you do on your time off. You don't have say "**** off, its none of your business" but you don't have to gleefully describe your last F-16 alert scramble or C-130 trip to the sandbox. Remember the new guy rule of "never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole..." I haven't always lived that--but wished I had complied more.
The problem is you face too many unknown threats. Everyone knows management is a threat, and will try to harass or intimidate you when they think they can get away with it to reduce their reserve utilization and make their matrix look better. It ain't personal--but it still irks you. But its a known threat.
The threats you may not recognize....are your co-workers. These threads show a few....
The guy who lives in domicile hoping to not get called on reserve. He huffs and puffs when the phone rings calling him out...and he resents you...
The guy who retired to get "security" while you bailed at 7/10/12/14 years and will never have your seniority. He has no reserve duties so he works at the whim of the company, and he may resent your "good deal" of still flying tactical stuff and getting the odd day off here and there. He may have wanted to be you--but didn't have the balls to bail. Not every 20 year guy fits the mold--but there are some.
The guy who rushed your Guard unit but was not offered a position. Maybe he went somewhere else, or never got hired anywhere. He hates your guts, and you don't even know it....
The guy who didn't have 20/20 but knew every fighter ever made, watched Baa Black Sheep religiously, but never could pass a military medical and worked his way up through the regionals...
My point is as a new hire we typically look at our more senior co-workers and see guys we envy--with seniority, experience, and good deals. What you may not understand is some are envious of you too...and sometimes envy causes people to do some pretty nasty things, or work against you behind the scenes.
So--don't do anything that creates envy. Everyone that flys is cooler than you. Go do your job. Drop mil leave when you need it. Fly your missions and be a bro to your squadron mates. Don't do anything stupid or illegal. Preserve your job(s). But do not expect to make friends. Coworkers are coworkers. Friends are friends. Courteous to all--friends with very few is a good mantra for the TG/TRs out there.
Otherwise--expect guys like GoCats to ******* you when they can. We appreciate your service....until it stops me from getting a good deal. Nobody gives a damn about your deployment while you are gone--they are at the park, the mall, or the big game.... While you are in the sim working on C-130 EPs or prepping for your mission commander checkride in your Viper, they are at the lake with family. The reward for all that extra stress, risk, and time, is the ire of your flight management and many of your own co-workers.
So--you need to learn to quietly say "**** you. I serve my God, my family, and my nation. I cannot make everyone happy, even though I try." Then go about your business.
10-20-2016, 12:22 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Trying not to crash
Posts: 1,260
Otherwise--expect guys like GoCats to ******* you when they can. We appreciate your service....until it stops me from getting a good deal. Nobody gives a damn about your deployment while you are gone--they are at the park, the mall, or the big game.... While you are in the sim working on C-130 EPs or prepping for your mission commander checkride in your Viper, they are at the lake with family. The reward for all that extra stress, risk, and time, is the ire of your flight management and many of your own co-workers.
So--you need to learn to quietly say "**** you. I serve my God, my family, and my nation. I cannot make everyone happy, even though I try." Then go about your business.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
10-20-2016, 01:20 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 747 Captain, retired
Posts: 928
You're a 747 captain according to your profile, so how exactly is anyone pulling mil duty affecting you? Either you're on reserve and bidding for whatever days off you can get anyway, or flying your line, and near as I can tell all the whale capt's are too old to still be serving.
10-20-2016, 05:05 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,737
This thread has a lot of echos of threads on similar issues at other places like FDX and Delta. Management doesn't require a PBS system to be aggressive with their pilots--FDX has line schedules but hired a retired pilot and retired 1 star in the reserves to call units to ask about pilot duties. Most guys have clued their units in, but when he called he would ID himself as BG xxxxxxx. Not sure how much effect he had but the intent was to put a strong, credible former reservist to be "good cop" when he called to speak to commanders.
The fact is it doesn't matter what you did in the past, USERRA governs the rules. Most units appeared to have put a filter on this guy, but sharing that so you don't think CAL was the only demon out there. Read the Delta threat on MLOA and you'll see similar stuff. My suggestion is Mil Affairs guys at the Big 3 and FDX and SWA need to get their own teleconference and share intel. The companies are doing it--so they should too.
Over the last few years, my words to guys who are traditional Guardsmen and Reservists has morphed. It is now simple: Don't tell anyone in the cockpit what you do on your time off. You don't have say "**** off, its none of your business" but you don't have to gleefully describe your last F-16 alert scramble or C-130 trip to the sandbox. Remember the new guy rule of "never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole..." I haven't always lived that--but wished I had complied more.
The problem is you face too many unknown threats. Everyone knows management is a threat, and will try to harass or intimidate you when they think they can get away with it to reduce their reserve utilization and make their matrix look better. It ain't personal--but it still irks you. But its a known threat.
The threats you may not recognize....are your co-workers. These threads show a few....
The guy who lives in domicile hoping to not get called on reserve. He huffs and puffs when the phone rings calling him out...and he resents you...
The guy who retired to get "security" while you bailed at 7/10/12/14 years and will never have your seniority. He has no reserve duties so he works at the whim of the company, and he may resent your "good deal" of still flying tactical stuff and getting the odd day off here and there. He may have wanted to be you--but didn't have the balls to bail. Not every 20 year guy fits the mold--but there are some.
The guy who rushed your Guard unit but was not offered a position. Maybe he went somewhere else, or never got hired anywhere. He hates your guts, and you don't even know it....
The guy who didn't have 20/20 but knew every fighter ever made, watched Baa Black Sheep religiously, but never could pass a military medical and worked his way up through the regionals...
My point is as a new hire we typically look at our more senior co-workers and see guys we envy--with seniority, experience, and good deals. What you may not understand is some are envious of you too...and sometimes envy causes people to do some pretty nasty things, or work against you behind the scenes.
So--don't do anything that creates envy. Everyone that flys is cooler than you. Go do your job. Drop mil leave when you need it. Fly your missions and be a bro to your squadron mates. Don't do anything stupid or illegal. Preserve your job(s). But do not expect to make friends. Coworkers are coworkers. Friends are friends. Courteous to all--friends with very few is a good mantra for the TG/TRs out there.
Otherwise--expect guys like GoCats to ******* you when they can. We appreciate your service....until it stops me from getting a good deal. Nobody gives a damn about your deployment while you are gone--they are at the park, the mall, or the big game.... While you are in the sim working on C-130 EPs or prepping for your mission commander checkride in your Viper, they are at the lake with family. The reward for all that extra stress, risk, and time, is the ire of your flight management and many of your own co-workers.
So--you need to learn to quietly say "**** you. I serve my God, my family, and my nation. I cannot make everyone happy, even though I try." Then go about your business.
The fact is it doesn't matter what you did in the past, USERRA governs the rules. Most units appeared to have put a filter on this guy, but sharing that so you don't think CAL was the only demon out there. Read the Delta threat on MLOA and you'll see similar stuff. My suggestion is Mil Affairs guys at the Big 3 and FDX and SWA need to get their own teleconference and share intel. The companies are doing it--so they should too.
Over the last few years, my words to guys who are traditional Guardsmen and Reservists has morphed. It is now simple: Don't tell anyone in the cockpit what you do on your time off. You don't have say "**** off, its none of your business" but you don't have to gleefully describe your last F-16 alert scramble or C-130 trip to the sandbox. Remember the new guy rule of "never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole..." I haven't always lived that--but wished I had complied more.
The problem is you face too many unknown threats. Everyone knows management is a threat, and will try to harass or intimidate you when they think they can get away with it to reduce their reserve utilization and make their matrix look better. It ain't personal--but it still irks you. But its a known threat.
The threats you may not recognize....are your co-workers. These threads show a few....
The guy who lives in domicile hoping to not get called on reserve. He huffs and puffs when the phone rings calling him out...and he resents you...
The guy who retired to get "security" while you bailed at 7/10/12/14 years and will never have your seniority. He has no reserve duties so he works at the whim of the company, and he may resent your "good deal" of still flying tactical stuff and getting the odd day off here and there. He may have wanted to be you--but didn't have the balls to bail. Not every 20 year guy fits the mold--but there are some.
The guy who rushed your Guard unit but was not offered a position. Maybe he went somewhere else, or never got hired anywhere. He hates your guts, and you don't even know it....
The guy who didn't have 20/20 but knew every fighter ever made, watched Baa Black Sheep religiously, but never could pass a military medical and worked his way up through the regionals...
My point is as a new hire we typically look at our more senior co-workers and see guys we envy--with seniority, experience, and good deals. What you may not understand is some are envious of you too...and sometimes envy causes people to do some pretty nasty things, or work against you behind the scenes.
So--don't do anything that creates envy. Everyone that flys is cooler than you. Go do your job. Drop mil leave when you need it. Fly your missions and be a bro to your squadron mates. Don't do anything stupid or illegal. Preserve your job(s). But do not expect to make friends. Coworkers are coworkers. Friends are friends. Courteous to all--friends with very few is a good mantra for the TG/TRs out there.
Otherwise--expect guys like GoCats to ******* you when they can. We appreciate your service....until it stops me from getting a good deal. Nobody gives a damn about your deployment while you are gone--they are at the park, the mall, or the big game.... While you are in the sim working on C-130 EPs or prepping for your mission commander checkride in your Viper, they are at the lake with family. The reward for all that extra stress, risk, and time, is the ire of your flight management and many of your own co-workers.
So--you need to learn to quietly say "**** you. I serve my God, my family, and my nation. I cannot make everyone happy, even though I try." Then go about your business.
10-20-2016, 12:27 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 163
I don't either. But, many unit Commanders no longer take phone calls from UA due to past harassment and the frequency of calls. They just let those calls to their voice mails, or have secretary screen the calls. The USSERA laws don't require unit Commanders to speak with Civilian Employers.
10-20-2016, 03:55 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 953
This thread has a lot of echos of threads on similar issues at other places like FDX and Delta. Management doesn't require a PBS system to be aggressive with their pilots--FDX has line schedules but hired a retired pilot and retired 1 star in the reserves to call units to ask about pilot duties. Most guys have clued their units in, but when he called he would ID himself as BG xxxxxxx. Not sure how much effect he had but the intent was to put a strong, credible former reservist to be "good cop" when he called to speak to commanders.
The fact is it doesn't matter what you did in the past, USERRA governs the rules. Most units appeared to have put a filter on this guy, but sharing that so you don't think CAL was the only demon out there. Read the Delta threat on MLOA and you'll see similar stuff. My suggestion is Mil Affairs guys at the Big 3 and FDX and SWA need to get their own teleconference and share intel. The companies are doing it--so they should too.
Over the last few years, my words to guys who are traditional Guardsmen and Reservists has morphed. It is now simple: Don't tell anyone in the cockpit what you do on your time off. You don't have say "**** off, its none of your business" but you don't have to gleefully describe your last F-16 alert scramble or C-130 trip to the sandbox. Remember the new guy rule of "never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole..." I haven't always lived that--but wished I had complied more.
The problem is you face too many unknown threats. Everyone knows management is a threat, and will try to harass or intimidate you when they think they can get away with it to reduce their reserve utilization and make their matrix look better. It ain't personal--but it still irks you. But its a known threat.
The threats you may not recognize....are your co-workers. These threads show a few....
The guy who lives in domicile hoping to not get called on reserve. He huffs and puffs when the phone rings calling him out...and he resents you...
The guy who retired to get "security" while you bailed at 7/10/12/14 years and will never have your seniority. He has no reserve duties so he works at the whim of the company, and he may resent your "good deal" of still flying tactical stuff and getting the odd day off here and there. He may have wanted to be you--but didn't have the balls to bail. Not every 20 year guy fits the mold--but there are some.
The guy who rushed your Guard unit but was not offered a position. Maybe he went somewhere else, or never got hired anywhere. He hates your guts, and you don't even know it....
The guy who didn't have 20/20 but knew every fighter ever made, watched Baa Black Sheep religiously, but never could pass a military medical and worked his way up through the regionals...
My point is as a new hire we typically look at our more senior co-workers and see guys we envy--with seniority, experience, and good deals. What you may not understand is some are envious of you too...and sometimes envy causes people to do some pretty nasty things, or work against you behind the scenes.
So--don't do anything that creates envy. Everyone that flys is cooler than you. Go do your job. Drop mil leave when you need it. Fly your missions and be a bro to your squadron mates. Don't do anything stupid or illegal. Preserve your job(s). But do not expect to make friends. Coworkers are coworkers. Friends are friends. Courteous to all--friends with very few is a good mantra for the TG/TRs out there.
Otherwise--expect guys like GoCats to ******* you when they can. We appreciate your service....until it stops me from getting a good deal. Nobody gives a damn about your deployment while you are gone--they are at the park, the mall, or the big game.... While you are in the sim working on C-130 EPs or prepping for your mission commander checkride in your Viper, they are at the lake with family. The reward for all that extra stress, risk, and time, is the ire of your flight management and many of your own co-workers.
So--you need to learn to quietly say "**** you. I serve my God, my family, and my nation. I cannot make everyone happy, even though I try." Then go about your business.
The fact is it doesn't matter what you did in the past, USERRA governs the rules. Most units appeared to have put a filter on this guy, but sharing that so you don't think CAL was the only demon out there. Read the Delta threat on MLOA and you'll see similar stuff. My suggestion is Mil Affairs guys at the Big 3 and FDX and SWA need to get their own teleconference and share intel. The companies are doing it--so they should too.
Over the last few years, my words to guys who are traditional Guardsmen and Reservists has morphed. It is now simple: Don't tell anyone in the cockpit what you do on your time off. You don't have say "**** off, its none of your business" but you don't have to gleefully describe your last F-16 alert scramble or C-130 trip to the sandbox. Remember the new guy rule of "never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole..." I haven't always lived that--but wished I had complied more.
The problem is you face too many unknown threats. Everyone knows management is a threat, and will try to harass or intimidate you when they think they can get away with it to reduce their reserve utilization and make their matrix look better. It ain't personal--but it still irks you. But its a known threat.
The threats you may not recognize....are your co-workers. These threads show a few....
The guy who lives in domicile hoping to not get called on reserve. He huffs and puffs when the phone rings calling him out...and he resents you...
The guy who retired to get "security" while you bailed at 7/10/12/14 years and will never have your seniority. He has no reserve duties so he works at the whim of the company, and he may resent your "good deal" of still flying tactical stuff and getting the odd day off here and there. He may have wanted to be you--but didn't have the balls to bail. Not every 20 year guy fits the mold--but there are some.
The guy who rushed your Guard unit but was not offered a position. Maybe he went somewhere else, or never got hired anywhere. He hates your guts, and you don't even know it....
The guy who didn't have 20/20 but knew every fighter ever made, watched Baa Black Sheep religiously, but never could pass a military medical and worked his way up through the regionals...
My point is as a new hire we typically look at our more senior co-workers and see guys we envy--with seniority, experience, and good deals. What you may not understand is some are envious of you too...and sometimes envy causes people to do some pretty nasty things, or work against you behind the scenes.
So--don't do anything that creates envy. Everyone that flys is cooler than you. Go do your job. Drop mil leave when you need it. Fly your missions and be a bro to your squadron mates. Don't do anything stupid or illegal. Preserve your job(s). But do not expect to make friends. Coworkers are coworkers. Friends are friends. Courteous to all--friends with very few is a good mantra for the TG/TRs out there.
Otherwise--expect guys like GoCats to ******* you when they can. We appreciate your service....until it stops me from getting a good deal. Nobody gives a damn about your deployment while you are gone--they are at the park, the mall, or the big game.... While you are in the sim working on C-130 EPs or prepping for your mission commander checkride in your Viper, they are at the lake with family. The reward for all that extra stress, risk, and time, is the ire of your flight management and many of your own co-workers.
So--you need to learn to quietly say "**** you. I serve my God, my family, and my nation. I cannot make everyone happy, even though I try." Then go about your business.
I served voluntarily for years on both active duty and in the reserves. I don't fit in to any of your nice paranoid categories and I didn't expect an atta-boy because I was serving for my God, my family, and my Nation.
I brought the trip drop up on this thread in keeping with the same thought process of how this was handled during my years in the military. If a peer did something that would put my crew/squadron/Navy in a bad light, we would be expected to handle it at a peer level. Obviously we don't have a ready room or O club that we all hang out at, so this was a way to bring it to light.
Rest assured that you have should have no fear of me trying to F___ you. If I feel you have wronged me, I will still cover your back but I will also talk directly to your face or if that can't be done then I will reach out to professional standards. This drop was brought up to me by a friend and that was the exact advice I gave to him.
While your final line of doing what your family needs is a great statement, it sadly leaves too much open to interpretation. I absolutely understand the hardship that Military service brings and I am not trying to compare levels of hardship, but at a much lower level, sometimes being a Union Pilot is hard too. Doing what the Union and the contract expect of you may not always align with your families desires,
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EngineOut
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05-10-2017 11:12 AM
