Did OM's respite cause current Board Takeover
03-13-2016, 06:03 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
Andy, I don't disagree with what you write. As I've said before, I hope for the sake United Airlines, our employees and those that depend on a healthy airline that you are right. You've done the research and have done a good job of analyzing the probabilities. I won't question that but don't underestimate the impact of a preceived weakness in United management.
The people that Altimeter/PAR Capital want on the United board are crap. Maybe a couple of decent ones, but four of the six are total crap.
Here's the list:
Besides Bethune, the other people Altimeter and PAR want to add to the board include Altimeter Capital's Gerstner, former Orbitz Worldwide (OWW) CEO Barney Harford, former Delphi Automotive (DLPH) CEO Rodney O'Neal, SherpaFoundry CEO Tina Sharkey and the head of strategic initiatives at homebuilder Lennar (LEN), Brenda Yester Baty.
My opinion (worth nothing
):
Gordon Bethune - Anyone who states that FLIBS was fired for no reason in the middle of the night is completely incompetent and has no place on United's BOD. Gordo stated that in the CNBC interview.
Brad Gerstner - He's a hedgie. And a really crappy one at that. More than 1/3 of Altimeter Capital's holdings are United stock. Two stocks, United and Expedia, represent more than half of Altimeter's holdings. For that reason alone, I'd love to see United's stock get halved. 13F Manager Holdings - Altimeter Capital Management, LLC
I hope that a$$hat's hedge fund blows up.
Barney Harford - former CEO of Orbitz until he was able to sell Orbitz to Expedia in 2015. Took over in early 2009; stock's performance was nothing special compared to the rest of the stock market (it's a low hurdle to take over a public company in early 2009 at the bottom of the market and have the stock price rise a bit). He looks like one of those people who polish turds and then sell them.
Rodney O'Neal - Didn't look at his background; probably the most qualified of the six.
Tina Sharkey - reading her history reminded me of Al Gore 'inventing' the internet. Looked like a whole lot of overstating her past. Claimed to be a cofounder of iVillage (a failed internet company from the late 90s that was never profitable) but she was simply hired there, working for the cofounders.
Claims to have invented the term, 'social media'. LOL! Forbes Welcome I'd put the origin of that somewhere within AOL.
Checkered history of hopping between companies every couple of years, no company looks like it was successful.
Brenda Yester Baty - not much information out there on her. Used to do revenue management for Carnival Cruise Lines, moved over to Lennar Homes. From this article, it looks like she implemented six fare categories at Carnival only to backtrack a year later and return to three fare categories: Carnival Cruise Lines Simplifies Pricing - Carnival Cruise Lines - Cruise Critic.
Here's the list:
Besides Bethune, the other people Altimeter and PAR want to add to the board include Altimeter Capital's Gerstner, former Orbitz Worldwide (OWW) CEO Barney Harford, former Delphi Automotive (DLPH) CEO Rodney O'Neal, SherpaFoundry CEO Tina Sharkey and the head of strategic initiatives at homebuilder Lennar (LEN), Brenda Yester Baty.
My opinion (worth nothing
):Gordon Bethune - Anyone who states that FLIBS was fired for no reason in the middle of the night is completely incompetent and has no place on United's BOD. Gordo stated that in the CNBC interview.
Brad Gerstner - He's a hedgie. And a really crappy one at that. More than 1/3 of Altimeter Capital's holdings are United stock. Two stocks, United and Expedia, represent more than half of Altimeter's holdings. For that reason alone, I'd love to see United's stock get halved. 13F Manager Holdings - Altimeter Capital Management, LLC
I hope that a$$hat's hedge fund blows up.
Barney Harford - former CEO of Orbitz until he was able to sell Orbitz to Expedia in 2015. Took over in early 2009; stock's performance was nothing special compared to the rest of the stock market (it's a low hurdle to take over a public company in early 2009 at the bottom of the market and have the stock price rise a bit). He looks like one of those people who polish turds and then sell them.
Rodney O'Neal - Didn't look at his background; probably the most qualified of the six.
Tina Sharkey - reading her history reminded me of Al Gore 'inventing' the internet. Looked like a whole lot of overstating her past. Claimed to be a cofounder of iVillage (a failed internet company from the late 90s that was never profitable) but she was simply hired there, working for the cofounders.
Claims to have invented the term, 'social media'. LOL! Forbes Welcome I'd put the origin of that somewhere within AOL.
Checkered history of hopping between companies every couple of years, no company looks like it was successful.
Brenda Yester Baty - not much information out there on her. Used to do revenue management for Carnival Cruise Lines, moved over to Lennar Homes. From this article, it looks like she implemented six fare categories at Carnival only to backtrack a year later and return to three fare categories: Carnival Cruise Lines Simplifies Pricing - Carnival Cruise Lines - Cruise Critic.
I went back and watched David Faber's interview of GB.
Bethune: I'm helping the interest of the shareholders
From GB's "I don't know" after five seconds to "I need time to digest this" we all agree this smells. Par and Altimeter's argument fails if Munoz proves successful. Their time to act is now. To that extent, is this about perceived weakness or the fact that Munoz and Meyer signaled their desire to lead the company in a direction against the wishes of Par and Altimeter? Did the events of the last six months crack the door for shareholder activism?
Bethune: I'm helping the interest of the shareholders
From GB's "I don't know" after five seconds to "I need time to digest this" we all agree this smells. Par and Altimeter's argument fails if Munoz proves successful. Their time to act is now. To that extent, is this about perceived weakness or the fact that Munoz and Meyer signaled their desire to lead the company in a direction against the wishes of Par and Altimeter? Did the events of the last six months crack the door for shareholder activism?
One item that was discussed by David Fabor (starting at 4:40) is that United has a mandatory BOD retirement age of 75. Gordo is 74. His response was that the board will just raise the age.
Excuse me? The BOD is going to willingly raise retirement age so that these clowns can complete a hostile takeover of the BOD? This entire thing is amateur hour on the part of Altimeter/PAR/Gordo.
03-14-2016, 03:52 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 102
Exactly and everyone sees to forget that Greg Brenneman was the brains behind the turn around not Gordo. Gordo put the right people in the right spot and was mostly the cheerleader.
03-14-2016, 06:41 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
It could be as simple as Par and Altimeter want more than what the shareholders are currently getting. It would appear we have the most generous management given our current pay rates (even though we all know we deserve more, have lost more, etc).
I don't know if Altimeter and Par have stock in DAL or AA but it's possible maybe those airlines' investers are happy with the $$ they are receiving and happy to see DAL not get a contract and AA to see no profit sharing and lesser work rules in their contract.
I don't know if Altimeter and Par have stock in DAL or AA but it's possible maybe those airlines' investers are happy with the $$ they are receiving and happy to see DAL not get a contract and AA to see no profit sharing and lesser work rules in their contract.
03-14-2016, 06:43 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Buffoon might have actually strengthened Munoz with his epic CNBC failure.
What's Really Happening With United's Board?
Mar. 14, 2016
Adam Hartung
Last week, Altimeter Capital and PAR Capital announced they were using their combined 7.1% ownership of United to propose a slate of 6 new directors to the company's board.
Much was made of the fact that one of the proposed new directors is the former CEO of Continental, Gordon Bethune, who was very willing to speak out loudly and negatively regarding United's current board.
Investors will most likely get to vote on this decision. Keep existing board members, or throw them out in favor of a new slate? One would like to see United's reputation, and operations, improve dramatically.
But is changing out 6 directors the answer? Or are investors facing a vote that has them selecting between 2 less than optimal options? It would be good if there was less rhetoric, and more focus on actual proposals for change.
United Continental Holdings is the most recent public company to come under attack by hedge funds. Last week, Altimeter Capital and PAR Capital announced they were using their combined 7.1% ownership of United to propose a slate of 6 new directors to the company's board. As is common in such hedge fund moves, they expressed strongly their lack of confidence in United's board, and pointed out multiple years of underperformance.
UAL
United's leadership is certainly in a tough place. The airline consistently ranks near the bottom in customer satisfaction, and on-time performance. It has struggled for years with labor strife, and the mechanics union just rejected their proposed contract - again. The flight attendants' union has been in mediation for months. And few companies have had more consistently bad public relations, as customers have loudly complained about how they are treated - including one fellow making a music and speaking career out of how he was abused by United personnel for months after they destroyed his guitar.
But is changing the directors going to change the company? Or is it just changing the guest list for an haute couture affair? Should customers, employees, suppliers and investors expect things to really improve, or is this a selection between the devil and the deep blue sea?
Much was made of the fact that one of the proposed new directors is the former CEO of Continental, Gordon Bethune, who was very willing to speak out loudly and negatively regarding United's current board. But Mr. Bethune is 74 years old. Today, most companies have mandatory director retirement somewhere between age 68 and 72. Retired since 2004, is Mr. Bethune really in step with the needs of airline customers today? Does he really have a current understanding of how the best performing airlines keep customers happy while making money?
And, don't forget, Mr. Bethune handpicked Mr. Jeff Smisek to replace him at Continental. Mr. Smisek was the fellow who took over Mr. Bethune's board seat in 2004 after being appointed President and COO when Mr. Bethune retired. Smisek became CEO in 2010, and CEO of United Continental after the merger, and led the ongoing deterioration in United's performance as well as declining employee morale.
And then there's that pesky problem of Mr. Smisek bribing government officials to improve United's gate situation in Newark, NJ, which caused him to be fired by the current board. Is it coincidental that this attack on the Board did not happen for years, but happens now that there is a new CEO - who happens to be recently recovering from a heart replacement?
Although Mr. Bethune has commented that the new board would be one that understands the airline industry, the slate does not reflect this. Mr. Gerstner is head of Altimiter and by all accounts appears to be a finance expert. That was the background Ed Lampert brought to Sears (NASDAQ:SHLD), another big Chicago company, when he took over that board. And that has not worked out too well at all for any constituents - including investors.
One can give great kudos to the hedge funds for proposing a very diverse slate. Half the proposed directors are either female or of color. And, other than Mr. Bethune, the slate is pretty young - with 2 proposed directors under age 50. Congratulations on achieving diversification! But a deeper look can cause us to wonder exactly what these directors bring to the challenges, and what they are likely to want to change at United.
Rodney O'Neal was the former CEO of Delphi Automotive. A lifelong automotive manager and executive, he graduated from the General Motors Institute and spent his career at GM (NYSE:GM) before going to the parts unit GM had created in 1997 as a Vice President. Many may have forgotten that Delphi famously filed for bankruptcy in 2005, and proceeded to close over half its U.S. plants, then close or sell almost all of the other half in 2006.
Mr. O'Neal became CEO in 2007, after which the company closed its plants in Spain despite having signed a commitment letter not to do so. He was CEO in 2008 when the company sued its shareholders. And in 2009, when the company sold its core assets to private investors, then dumped assets into the bankrupt GM, cancelled the stock and renamed the old Delphi DPH Holdings. Cutting, selling and reorganizing seem to be his dominant executive experience.
Barney Harford is a young, talented tech executive. He headed Orbitz (NYSE:OWW), where Mr. Gerstner was on the board. Orbitz was originally created as the Travelocity and Expedia (NASDAQ:EXPE) killer by the major airlines. Unfortunately, it never did too well and Mr. Harford actually changed the company direction from primarily selling airline tickets to selling hotel rooms.
It is always good to see more women proposed for board positions. However, Ms. Brenda Yester Baty is an executive with Lennar (NYSE:LEN), a very large Florida-based homebuilder. And Ms. Tina Stark leads Sherpa Foundry, which has a 1 page website saying, "Sherpa Foundry builds bridges between the world's leading Corporations and the Innovation Economy." What that means leaves a lot of room for one's imagination, and precious little specifics. What either of these people have to do with creating a major turnaround in the operations of United is unclear.
There is no doubt that United is ripe for change. Replacing the CEO was clearly a step in the right direction - if a bit late. But one has to wonder if the new directors are there to make some specific change? If so, what kind of change? Despite the rough rhetoric, there has been no proclamation of what the new director slate would actually do differently. No discussion of a change in strategy - or any changes in any operating characteristics. Just vague statements about better governance.
Historically most activists take firm aim at cutting costs. And this is probably why the 2 largest unions have already denounced the new slate, and put their full support behind the existing board of directors. After so many years of ill-will between management and labor at United, one would wonder why these unions would not welcome change. Unless they fear the new board will be mostly focused on cost-cutting, and further attempts at downsizing and pay/benefits reductions.
Investors will most likely get to vote on this decision. Keep existing board members, or throw them out in favor of a new slate? One would like to see United's reputation, and operations, improve dramatically. But is changing out 6 directors the answer? Or are investors facing a vote that has them selecting between 2 less than optimal options? It would be good if there was less rhetoric, and more focus on actual proposals for change.
What's Really Happening With United's Board?
Mar. 14, 2016
Adam Hartung
Last week, Altimeter Capital and PAR Capital announced they were using their combined 7.1% ownership of United to propose a slate of 6 new directors to the company's board.
Much was made of the fact that one of the proposed new directors is the former CEO of Continental, Gordon Bethune, who was very willing to speak out loudly and negatively regarding United's current board.
Investors will most likely get to vote on this decision. Keep existing board members, or throw them out in favor of a new slate? One would like to see United's reputation, and operations, improve dramatically.
But is changing out 6 directors the answer? Or are investors facing a vote that has them selecting between 2 less than optimal options? It would be good if there was less rhetoric, and more focus on actual proposals for change.
United Continental Holdings is the most recent public company to come under attack by hedge funds. Last week, Altimeter Capital and PAR Capital announced they were using their combined 7.1% ownership of United to propose a slate of 6 new directors to the company's board. As is common in such hedge fund moves, they expressed strongly their lack of confidence in United's board, and pointed out multiple years of underperformance.
UAL
United's leadership is certainly in a tough place. The airline consistently ranks near the bottom in customer satisfaction, and on-time performance. It has struggled for years with labor strife, and the mechanics union just rejected their proposed contract - again. The flight attendants' union has been in mediation for months. And few companies have had more consistently bad public relations, as customers have loudly complained about how they are treated - including one fellow making a music and speaking career out of how he was abused by United personnel for months after they destroyed his guitar.
But is changing the directors going to change the company? Or is it just changing the guest list for an haute couture affair? Should customers, employees, suppliers and investors expect things to really improve, or is this a selection between the devil and the deep blue sea?
Much was made of the fact that one of the proposed new directors is the former CEO of Continental, Gordon Bethune, who was very willing to speak out loudly and negatively regarding United's current board. But Mr. Bethune is 74 years old. Today, most companies have mandatory director retirement somewhere between age 68 and 72. Retired since 2004, is Mr. Bethune really in step with the needs of airline customers today? Does he really have a current understanding of how the best performing airlines keep customers happy while making money?
And, don't forget, Mr. Bethune handpicked Mr. Jeff Smisek to replace him at Continental. Mr. Smisek was the fellow who took over Mr. Bethune's board seat in 2004 after being appointed President and COO when Mr. Bethune retired. Smisek became CEO in 2010, and CEO of United Continental after the merger, and led the ongoing deterioration in United's performance as well as declining employee morale.
And then there's that pesky problem of Mr. Smisek bribing government officials to improve United's gate situation in Newark, NJ, which caused him to be fired by the current board. Is it coincidental that this attack on the Board did not happen for years, but happens now that there is a new CEO - who happens to be recently recovering from a heart replacement?
Although Mr. Bethune has commented that the new board would be one that understands the airline industry, the slate does not reflect this. Mr. Gerstner is head of Altimiter and by all accounts appears to be a finance expert. That was the background Ed Lampert brought to Sears (NASDAQ:SHLD), another big Chicago company, when he took over that board. And that has not worked out too well at all for any constituents - including investors.
One can give great kudos to the hedge funds for proposing a very diverse slate. Half the proposed directors are either female or of color. And, other than Mr. Bethune, the slate is pretty young - with 2 proposed directors under age 50. Congratulations on achieving diversification! But a deeper look can cause us to wonder exactly what these directors bring to the challenges, and what they are likely to want to change at United.
Rodney O'Neal was the former CEO of Delphi Automotive. A lifelong automotive manager and executive, he graduated from the General Motors Institute and spent his career at GM (NYSE:GM) before going to the parts unit GM had created in 1997 as a Vice President. Many may have forgotten that Delphi famously filed for bankruptcy in 2005, and proceeded to close over half its U.S. plants, then close or sell almost all of the other half in 2006.
Mr. O'Neal became CEO in 2007, after which the company closed its plants in Spain despite having signed a commitment letter not to do so. He was CEO in 2008 when the company sued its shareholders. And in 2009, when the company sold its core assets to private investors, then dumped assets into the bankrupt GM, cancelled the stock and renamed the old Delphi DPH Holdings. Cutting, selling and reorganizing seem to be his dominant executive experience.
Barney Harford is a young, talented tech executive. He headed Orbitz (NYSE:OWW), where Mr. Gerstner was on the board. Orbitz was originally created as the Travelocity and Expedia (NASDAQ:EXPE) killer by the major airlines. Unfortunately, it never did too well and Mr. Harford actually changed the company direction from primarily selling airline tickets to selling hotel rooms.
It is always good to see more women proposed for board positions. However, Ms. Brenda Yester Baty is an executive with Lennar (NYSE:LEN), a very large Florida-based homebuilder. And Ms. Tina Stark leads Sherpa Foundry, which has a 1 page website saying, "Sherpa Foundry builds bridges between the world's leading Corporations and the Innovation Economy." What that means leaves a lot of room for one's imagination, and precious little specifics. What either of these people have to do with creating a major turnaround in the operations of United is unclear.
There is no doubt that United is ripe for change. Replacing the CEO was clearly a step in the right direction - if a bit late. But one has to wonder if the new directors are there to make some specific change? If so, what kind of change? Despite the rough rhetoric, there has been no proclamation of what the new director slate would actually do differently. No discussion of a change in strategy - or any changes in any operating characteristics. Just vague statements about better governance.
Historically most activists take firm aim at cutting costs. And this is probably why the 2 largest unions have already denounced the new slate, and put their full support behind the existing board of directors. After so many years of ill-will between management and labor at United, one would wonder why these unions would not welcome change. Unless they fear the new board will be mostly focused on cost-cutting, and further attempts at downsizing and pay/benefits reductions.
Investors will most likely get to vote on this decision. Keep existing board members, or throw them out in favor of a new slate? One would like to see United's reputation, and operations, improve dramatically. But is changing out 6 directors the answer? Or are investors facing a vote that has them selecting between 2 less than optimal options? It would be good if there was less rhetoric, and more focus on actual proposals for change.
03-14-2016, 05:51 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 151
The other employee groups havent gotten squat.
Or possibly the fact that he is advocating for making this place a good place for employees which will have a trickle down effect to our passengers. And that means taking the human equation into thought, signing contracts, paying more money, making benefits better, even if it costs the company a little bit extra. But to an investor, that could be their money and they see it as coming from their bottom line, so they are fighting to stop it.
That's my thinking anyways, and I'm seeing more employees happy at work, more employees willing to help and go above and beyond "their job", and it is having an effect on our customers.
That's my thinking anyways, and I'm seeing more employees happy at work, more employees willing to help and go above and beyond "their job", and it is having an effect on our customers.
03-14-2016, 06:10 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
United Airlines (UAL) Dispatchers Vote to Ratify Contract Extension
March 7, 2016 1:08 PM EST
United's (NYSE: UAL) more than 420 dispatchers, represented by the Professional Airline Flight Control Association, have voted by a 91 percent margin to ratify a tentative agreement that will extend their current contract through the end of 2021.
"This contract recognizes the essential role our dispatchers play toward fulfilling United's shared purpose, and I thank the negotiating teams from both PAFCA and United for swiftly reaching a deal that works for our company and our employees," said United President and CEO Oscar Munoz. "I'm glad we're taking this positive step together."
The new agreement delivers meaningful improvements for both the company and dispatchers.
Machinists Union Supports Munoz Strategy at United Airlines
March 08, 2016 01:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) District Lodge 141 President Mike Klemm today extended his support to United Airlines Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Oscar Munoz’ strategic plan to make United the preeminent global airline in the face of a challenge from a group of investors looking to appoint six new directors to the United Continental Holdings, Inc. (UAL) Board.
“CEO Munoz has demonstrated by his actions, not merely words, that he believes employees make the difference in the success of an airline,” said IAM District 141 President Mike Klemm. “The progress we have already made in working with his team is proof of his commitment to United’s most important asset – its employees. This challenge to United’s board has the potential to distract the company and derail the progress we have made.”
Late last year the IAM and United entered into limited issue, expedited discussions to extend contracts covering approximately 28,000 IAM members at United. As a condition for the IAM to enter those talks, United agreed to halt all outsourcing of work performed by IAM-represented workers until at least January, 2019. These negotiations are proceeding at an unprecedented pace.
“It’s our members who make sure United’s customers get to where they’re going safely and on time, in all types of conditions,” continued Klemm. “If the people who make that happen aren’t treated properly, the product suffers. Oscar Munoz and his team have helped United turn the corner in improving employee relations and that ultimately benefits employees, shareholders and passengers alike.”
03-14-2016, 08:05 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
This is notAnd yet.
Flight Attendant Union Confident in Munoz Vision for United Airlines
Date: March 8, 2016
Type: AFA Media Release
Contact: Taylor Garland at 202-550-5520
AFA Media Release
The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO (AFA) International President Sara Nelson released the following statement after certain investors announced an attempt to gain six board seats on the United Continental Holdings, Inc. (UAL) Board:
“Oscar Munoz has presented a vision for United Airlines that passengers and employees can believe in. Even during his recovery and sick leave, Munoz engaged meaningfully in repairing labor relations and getting Flight Attendant contract negotiations on track to conclusion. Our union has worked with a lot of management teams over seven decades and we have rarely experienced a CEO as engaged or committed to the success of an airline.
“Oscar is moving United Airlines out of the era of struggling airlines and a failed merger to a vision of shared purpose that provides hope and excitement for the future of the airline. He has barely had the opportunity to put his plan into effect, but already we are seeing results. These investors are creating a distraction at just the wrong time if their interest is truly in turning around United and building an airline that will again lead the industry with performance, profits, share price and importantly, engaged employees who take pride in the place where they work.
“Oscar Munoz is shaping up to be the best CEO at United Airlines since William Patterson. Flight Attendants support his efforts to return United Airlines to world-class, premier status.”
AFA represents 24,000 Flight Attendants at United Airlines.
Flight Attendant Union Confident in Munoz Vision for United Airlines
Date: March 8, 2016
Type: AFA Media Release
Contact: Taylor Garland at 202-550-5520
AFA Media Release
The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO (AFA) International President Sara Nelson released the following statement after certain investors announced an attempt to gain six board seats on the United Continental Holdings, Inc. (UAL) Board:
“Oscar Munoz has presented a vision for United Airlines that passengers and employees can believe in. Even during his recovery and sick leave, Munoz engaged meaningfully in repairing labor relations and getting Flight Attendant contract negotiations on track to conclusion. Our union has worked with a lot of management teams over seven decades and we have rarely experienced a CEO as engaged or committed to the success of an airline.
“Oscar is moving United Airlines out of the era of struggling airlines and a failed merger to a vision of shared purpose that provides hope and excitement for the future of the airline. He has barely had the opportunity to put his plan into effect, but already we are seeing results. These investors are creating a distraction at just the wrong time if their interest is truly in turning around United and building an airline that will again lead the industry with performance, profits, share price and importantly, engaged employees who take pride in the place where they work.
“Oscar Munoz is shaping up to be the best CEO at United Airlines since William Patterson. Flight Attendants support his efforts to return United Airlines to world-class, premier status.”
AFA represents 24,000 Flight Attendants at United Airlines.
03-14-2016, 09:07 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
03-14-2016, 09:17 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 151
Sorry my post had nothing to do with Alt, Par or Gordo. It was merely a reality check for the guys posting about how good the company is for employees.
I get it that if you guys are good you think that everybody else is good because its not your problem.
I get it that if you guys are good you think that everybody else is good because its not your problem.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
