Scott Stoops

it most certainly doesn't hurt more than the damage done. The entire pilot group just paid the price for undoing loa 25 (which was morally reprehensible and had to be fixed) and we are all paying the price for the pay banding. Every single paycheck. How else would you describe it?

Sunvox

Damage done????

You know I always respected you because of the work you have done in the RC world (although I gave up Pattern Flying for racing Porsches), but that statement really brings everything into question. I suspect you are a genuine intellect so as such I wonder if you are open to an honest debate? I wish to convince you that you're mistaken, and I am open to the possibility that I am mistaken.

So, why is it you feel we alll "paid the price"?

Joe Peck
EWRFO
D.O.H. 4/1/96
Dartmouth '88 MBA/BSEE
born Csizmadia Joszef Andras

Scott Stoops

Joe, loa 25 existed for one reason... cal sli. It wasn't for the betterment if the ual pilot group. Yes, we all paid to undo it. It should have never happened. It happened because calpa was playing games. So maybe you're reading this wrong. I would gladly pay ten times what that cost to undo. It should have never happened.

Are we clear now?

Bestglide

We won't get past this with devisive posts like this!

pilotgolfer

How do we get rid of pay banding? Is this something that can only get eliminated in Section 6 negotiations?

Probe

When the SLI happened, I didn't really like the pay banding, but it was a compromise to get the contract past. Now, I am starting to like it.

Why? Moving from a NB to the 757 pays so little, why do it unless you can get better flying. You won't move for 15% pay. Same thing going up from there. The 764 pays the same as the next pay band. Again, no economic pressure to move up.

The 764 and 787 will also be with us longer than UAL's 763 and 744 fleets. The 787 fleet is going to be HUGE. I think getting these two at the highest pay band will pay off for the pilots in the future.

Of course, there will always be those greedy souls who will move up for a few percent, and then commute to sit on reserve. Then beach about it.

I know the pay banding was about attempting to move the needle during the SLI process. Going forward, I am not sure it is a bad thing.

A320fumes

Scott:

Please don't forget that 4 of the 8 Reps who refuted LOA 25 were lCal. I hope you did't forget that. Hard to tell from your post.

-Ben

svergin

It was to get our 767-400s and 787s in the same category as the 777 and 747, and to get the UA 757s in the same category as our 737s. Unfortunately it didn't work. But the benefit is that 737 pay is banded up to the 757 and the 767-400 an 787 are banded up as well. I don't get why people want to see those Paybands broken up so the pay can be lowered.

Probe

Me either. We will probably end up with north of 100 787's. Far more than 763 + 744 numbers at UAL. Getting those at the higher pay band is a good thing long term.

757's are going away eventually, especially UAL's oldest. The first sniff of a downturn, they will be parked instantly. Several carriers have recently recently deferred 787 deliveries, we could replace 763's quicker than planned.

Personally I like how UPS does it. Fly what you want and get paid by seat and seniority. But, our system is what it is.

jsled

There is nothing wrong with pay banding. But it's change. And pilots hate change. Remember when we were told that an actual passenger count was not necessary because the gate readers were more accurate? Holy ****e! How long did Captain's INSIST on an actual count. How many do now?? Yep. What about after 9-11, we changed sterile cockpit to 18k. Years later we changed it back to 10K...WOW, the backlash! Whole missives on the UAL forum about how "I am keeping 18K!!!!" How many do that now?? YEP. Pilots just need to chill. Go with the flow. Irie, mon. GOOSE-FRABA.