Fixes to reserve
01-17-2016, 06:27 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Scrappy, a few points of contention....
Actually later is later. We aren't going to enter section 6 anytime soon if this TA doesn't pass. Sorry that's fact.
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Absent this end around by the company, we would have exchanged openers in May or June of this year. That's entering Section 6 negotiations by anyones measure.
To think we will fix the reserve system (or get a full section 6 TA within months) is not being realistic. Not a personal jab but saying "we'll get this fixed soon" is disenginious at best.
I read most of what's published on both forums and not one of the NAY proponents claims or even suggests that we will get anything fixed in 6 months, only that the process will begin. Furthermore, I don't think anyone expects wholesale changes to reserve. But I do think that some improvements could be made if we pushed a bit. Particularly those which are relatively cheap as viewed from the companies standpoint. A few of these minor improvements would have gone a LONG way to placating many of the NO voters. Instead, it appears that the whole idea was shelved the instant the company pushed back. Alternatively, there could have been tweaks to Sick Leave, Trip Trading, Training Pay, etc. IOW, reserve wasn't the holy grail. But it was the one signaled out by JH. Hence the blow back following his capitulation.
Just ate lunch with a SWA buddy two days ago. They are knee deep in mediation for their contract with really no end in sight. This is their "few months" down the road after rejecting the past TA.
How many wide body, international flights did SWA cancel in the last year due to FRMS / duty day extension issues and how many millions of dollars did those cancellations represent?
How much damage was done to the brand as a result of those cancellations?
How many 767's, 777's and 787's does SWA operate globally, and park when things turn south operationally?
How many of those types does SWA have on order?
Did SWA management approach the pilots early in an attempt to fix an operational choke point that costs the company millions annually?
And since they tossed their whole committee and started anew, who would have expected results from the new team this quick?
I guess you can see where I am going with this one. Apples and Oranges.
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Absent this end around by the company, we would have exchanged openers in May or June of this year. That's entering Section 6 negotiations by anyones measure.
To think we will fix the reserve system (or get a full section 6 TA within months) is not being realistic. Not a personal jab but saying "we'll get this fixed soon" is disenginious at best.
I read most of what's published on both forums and not one of the NAY proponents claims or even suggests that we will get anything fixed in 6 months, only that the process will begin. Furthermore, I don't think anyone expects wholesale changes to reserve. But I do think that some improvements could be made if we pushed a bit. Particularly those which are relatively cheap as viewed from the companies standpoint. A few of these minor improvements would have gone a LONG way to placating many of the NO voters. Instead, it appears that the whole idea was shelved the instant the company pushed back. Alternatively, there could have been tweaks to Sick Leave, Trip Trading, Training Pay, etc. IOW, reserve wasn't the holy grail. But it was the one signaled out by JH. Hence the blow back following his capitulation.
Just ate lunch with a SWA buddy two days ago. They are knee deep in mediation for their contract with really no end in sight. This is their "few months" down the road after rejecting the past TA.
How many wide body, international flights did SWA cancel in the last year due to FRMS / duty day extension issues and how many millions of dollars did those cancellations represent?
How much damage was done to the brand as a result of those cancellations?
How many 767's, 777's and 787's does SWA operate globally, and park when things turn south operationally?
How many of those types does SWA have on order?
Did SWA management approach the pilots early in an attempt to fix an operational choke point that costs the company millions annually?
And since they tossed their whole committee and started anew, who would have expected results from the new team this quick?
I guess you can see where I am going with this one. Apples and Oranges.
01-17-2016, 11:39 PM
#112
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
James,
1) early openers ONLY if both sides agree. You're assuming that company would.
2) Captain Heppner didn't propose that reserve would be improved. McKeen did. Have you listened to what he said about the reserve change proposals? It wasn't "a little pushback".
3) DAL and AMR both operate long haul flying, and they have the same FRMS issues. It's not the end all, be all in leverage. Captain Heppner made it very clear that this TA came about from a desire by Oscar to quiet labor issues for awhile so he could focus on getting the train back on the track. Without Oscar, there would be no TA. Jeff lived under the FRMS issues and he certainly wasn't offering up a 13% pay raise a year early.
1) early openers ONLY if both sides agree. You're assuming that company would.
2) Captain Heppner didn't propose that reserve would be improved. McKeen did. Have you listened to what he said about the reserve change proposals? It wasn't "a little pushback".
3) DAL and AMR both operate long haul flying, and they have the same FRMS issues. It's not the end all, be all in leverage. Captain Heppner made it very clear that this TA came about from a desire by Oscar to quiet labor issues for awhile so he could focus on getting the train back on the track. Without Oscar, there would be no TA. Jeff lived under the FRMS issues and he certainly wasn't offering up a 13% pay raise a year early.
01-18-2016, 12:25 AM
#113
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
Personally I can't wait for the 22nd, and results of the vote that will be north of 80% yes. Then, we can all go back to slamming each other over more important things, like the SLI.
I can't wait for February to start so I can get a bunch of unused SC's.
I can't wait for February to start so I can get a bunch of unused SC's.
01-18-2016, 03:36 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
James,
1) early openers ONLY if both sides agree. You're assuming that company would.
2) Captain Heppner didn't propose that reserve would be improved. McKeen did. Have you listened to what he said about the reserve change proposals? It wasn't "a little pushback".
3) DAL and AMR both operate long haul flying, and they have the same FRMS issues. It's not the end all, be all in leverage. Captain Heppner made it very clear that this TA came about from a desire by Oscar to quiet labor issues for awhile so he could focus on getting the train back on the track. Without Oscar, there would be no TA. Jeff lived under the FRMS issues and he certainly wasn't offering up a 13% pay raise a year early.
1) early openers ONLY if both sides agree. You're assuming that company would.
2) Captain Heppner didn't propose that reserve would be improved. McKeen did. Have you listened to what he said about the reserve change proposals? It wasn't "a little pushback".
3) DAL and AMR both operate long haul flying, and they have the same FRMS issues. It's not the end all, be all in leverage. Captain Heppner made it very clear that this TA came about from a desire by Oscar to quiet labor issues for awhile so he could focus on getting the train back on the track. Without Oscar, there would be no TA. Jeff lived under the FRMS issues and he certainly wasn't offering up a 13% pay raise a year early.
01-18-2016, 06:00 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
You have just hit every low-point about the reserve system. The most egregious of all your points is the late night calls for SC! I just got one at 2210 day before yesterday, advising me that I had a 1000 SC (well technically it was a 1010 SC but I was too sleepy to argue with the Crew desk.) Why is it that they can't figure out when SC's are needed and have them assigned by noon. What drives their decision at 2200 that could not have driven it before noon? On the WB, reserve is not too onerous EXCEPT for SC's. Why can't we sit down with the company and explain that assigning SC's late at night CAN cause a Pilot to be out of position and maybe they can explain why they happen; or not. Of course, if you live in Base, SC's are meaningless.
In your example, before 2210 you had provided coverage throughout that evening for trip show times before 0610. At 1900 they could have assigned you a 0500 show for example. When rolled into the 1010 short call you now will cover trip show times that start at 1240 AND, with the 10-hour to release provision, show times starting at 2010 and rolling on into the next morning again.
No doubt they could do the same if short call release to report were 12 hours, same as long call, but if you were a scheduler and had essentially two long call systems to choose from, one with 12 hours release to report and the other 10 hour release to report, it's easy to see which they choose, and possibly why there are so many short calls.
Last edited by APC225; 01-18-2016 at 06:12 AM.
01-18-2016, 06:15 AM
#117
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
I'm with you probe, do we get bigger wings and hat emblem with that 80%? I know sled gets a new pool.
01-18-2016, 07:09 AM
#118
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
If they wanted free reign for FRMS, they certainly didn't get it, because ALPA will be involved in every discussion per this TA
01-18-2016, 07:11 AM
#119
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
01-18-2016, 07:30 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 303
We get a substantial raise, auto add pay if you extend on ultra long haul, a Delta snap up (may or may not trigger), and an increase in your B fund that will accrue compounding interest over time.
That's what we get.
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