View Poll Results: What say you?
Yes
214
72.30%
No
82
27.70%
Voters: 296. You may not vote on this poll
Extension TA Poll
01-02-2016, 07:31 PM
#82
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
It appears you try to bait and start an argument. The 570 were not Scabs but they are all senior to you. Sorry you can't accept that but then again you claimed the Tracy Ace's were Scab pilots - trying to hide something there? With your lack of knowledge of United history, I'm not surprised at your wild claims, maybe we should question your background. Sad,Sad,Sad........
01-03-2016, 07:37 AM
#83
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Let's see if you have taken the time to learn a little United history before running at the mouth. The bulk of the 570 were hired in the Dec 1984 to May 1985 time frame. With a few in Nov 1984 and Jun 1985. I was hired in the middle of the group.
What's your point?
I won't get into a 20 questions game with you but since you asked me a question and I responded you owe an answer.
Why did you run out and get 737 type rating and then take a leave of absence from United to go work for CAL? (Not in an ALPA deal) Were you trying to play both the LCAL and LUAL side to improve your personal seniority? I would never call someone a scab without cause but you have to question actions like that.
01-03-2016, 09:34 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
I have to step in and correct some wrong thinking here.
I was hired in 1978 and know the 570 issue with great detail (I won't explain beyond that).
The 570 group were pre-hired pre-strike and expected by Sr. VP of Human Resources and CEO Ferris to work should a strike happen. They were also expected to work should a negotiated settlement be accomplished.
As a threat to the 570 they were told that they were only pre-hired and not official pilots of UAL.
When the strike began in 1985 the 570 (with only a couple of exceptions) refused to cross the picket lines and were fired or dismissed from UAL.
After the strike ALPA paid them meager benefits and sued UAL based on historic practice they were pilots of UAL.
The courts agreed and they returned to UAL, but without their rightful dates of hire. Another fight ensued with UAL and eventually the rightful seniority was returned to them.
While some may believe they, the 570, were hired as "scabs" that is a completely false statement and misrepresentation of the facts. The facts are they were hired at a time when UAL was in great need of pilots, strike or no strike, and they showed their merit by, in mass, joining the picket lines of UAL pilots under the threat to never work at UAL in the future.
Please get it right!!!
Just one more comment for all those who seem to misuse the "scab" word.
A scab (not using the poetic version) is someone who crosses an official, legal and sanctioned picket line. Everyone who crossed UAL's 85 strike picket line to work is a scab. The same applies to those who crossed the CAL line.
However, there are those who made restitution at UAL (there was an official ALPA method for this) and while they are still scabs for what they did, they are also part of the ALPA brotherhood and welcome.
On the CAL side the strike lasted long and brought great difficulty to ALPA and the brotherhood of pilots. I have people I know who hung it out to the end and were called "crawl backs" by many.
The history of these actions are growing old and fading as we retire into the mist. However, calling someone a "scab" today just because he or she won't wear an ALPA pin or thinks their 2005 seniority was damaged some how is not right. I also hope the future does not require a strike to solve the contractual issue again.
But things have a way of repeating themselves.
I was hired in 1978 and know the 570 issue with great detail (I won't explain beyond that).
The 570 group were pre-hired pre-strike and expected by Sr. VP of Human Resources and CEO Ferris to work should a strike happen. They were also expected to work should a negotiated settlement be accomplished.
As a threat to the 570 they were told that they were only pre-hired and not official pilots of UAL.
When the strike began in 1985 the 570 (with only a couple of exceptions) refused to cross the picket lines and were fired or dismissed from UAL.
After the strike ALPA paid them meager benefits and sued UAL based on historic practice they were pilots of UAL.
The courts agreed and they returned to UAL, but without their rightful dates of hire. Another fight ensued with UAL and eventually the rightful seniority was returned to them.
While some may believe they, the 570, were hired as "scabs" that is a completely false statement and misrepresentation of the facts. The facts are they were hired at a time when UAL was in great need of pilots, strike or no strike, and they showed their merit by, in mass, joining the picket lines of UAL pilots under the threat to never work at UAL in the future.
Please get it right!!!
Just one more comment for all those who seem to misuse the "scab" word.
A scab (not using the poetic version) is someone who crosses an official, legal and sanctioned picket line. Everyone who crossed UAL's 85 strike picket line to work is a scab. The same applies to those who crossed the CAL line.
However, there are those who made restitution at UAL (there was an official ALPA method for this) and while they are still scabs for what they did, they are also part of the ALPA brotherhood and welcome.
On the CAL side the strike lasted long and brought great difficulty to ALPA and the brotherhood of pilots. I have people I know who hung it out to the end and were called "crawl backs" by many.
The history of these actions are growing old and fading as we retire into the mist. However, calling someone a "scab" today just because he or she won't wear an ALPA pin or thinks their 2005 seniority was damaged some how is not right. I also hope the future does not require a strike to solve the contractual issue again.
But things have a way of repeating themselves.
Last edited by Regularguy; 01-03-2016 at 09:50 AM.
01-03-2016, 10:14 AM
#85
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
I have to step in and correct some wrong thinking here.
I was hired in 1978 and know the 570 issue with great detail (I won't explain beyond that).
The 570 group were pre-hired pre-strike and expected by Sr. VP of Human Resources and CEO Ferris to work should a strike happen. They were also expected to work should a negotiated settlement be accomplished.
As a threat to the 570 they were told that they were only pre-hired and not official pilots of UAL.
When the strike began in 1985 the 570 (with only a couple of exceptions) refused to cross the picket lines and were fired or dismissed from UAL.
After the strike ALPA paid them meager benefits and sued UAL based on historic practice they were pilots of UAL.
The courts agreed and they returned to UAL, but without their rightful dates of hire. Another fight ensued with UAL and eventually the rightful seniority was returned to them.
While some may believe they, the 570, were hired as "scabs" that is a completely false statement and misrepresentation of the facts. The facts are they were hired at a time when UAL was in great need of pilots, strike or no strike, and they showed their merit by, in mass, joining the picket lines of UAL pilots under the threat to never work at UAL in the future.
Please get it right!!!
Just one more comment for all those who seem to misuse the "scab" word.
A scab (not using the poetic version) is someone who crosses an official, legal and sanctioned picket line. Everyone who crossed UAL's 85 strike picket line to work is a scab. The same applies to those who crossed the CAL line.
However, there are those who made restitution at UAL (there was an official ALPA method for this) and while they are still scabs for what they did, they are also part of the ALPA brotherhood and welcome.
On the CAL side the strike lasted long and brought great difficulty to ALPA and the brotherhood of pilots. I have people I know who hung it out to the end and were called "crawl backs" by many.
The history of these actions are growing old and fading as we retire into the mist. However, calling someone a "scab" today just because he or she won't wear an ALPA pin or thinks their 2005 seniority was damaged some how is not right. I also hope the future does not require a strike to solve the contractual issue again.
But things have a way of repeating themselves.
I was hired in 1978 and know the 570 issue with great detail (I won't explain beyond that).
The 570 group were pre-hired pre-strike and expected by Sr. VP of Human Resources and CEO Ferris to work should a strike happen. They were also expected to work should a negotiated settlement be accomplished.
As a threat to the 570 they were told that they were only pre-hired and not official pilots of UAL.
When the strike began in 1985 the 570 (with only a couple of exceptions) refused to cross the picket lines and were fired or dismissed from UAL.
After the strike ALPA paid them meager benefits and sued UAL based on historic practice they were pilots of UAL.
The courts agreed and they returned to UAL, but without their rightful dates of hire. Another fight ensued with UAL and eventually the rightful seniority was returned to them.
While some may believe they, the 570, were hired as "scabs" that is a completely false statement and misrepresentation of the facts. The facts are they were hired at a time when UAL was in great need of pilots, strike or no strike, and they showed their merit by, in mass, joining the picket lines of UAL pilots under the threat to never work at UAL in the future.
Please get it right!!!
Just one more comment for all those who seem to misuse the "scab" word.
A scab (not using the poetic version) is someone who crosses an official, legal and sanctioned picket line. Everyone who crossed UAL's 85 strike picket line to work is a scab. The same applies to those who crossed the CAL line.
However, there are those who made restitution at UAL (there was an official ALPA method for this) and while they are still scabs for what they did, they are also part of the ALPA brotherhood and welcome.
On the CAL side the strike lasted long and brought great difficulty to ALPA and the brotherhood of pilots. I have people I know who hung it out to the end and were called "crawl backs" by many.
The history of these actions are growing old and fading as we retire into the mist. However, calling someone a "scab" today just because he or she won't wear an ALPA pin or thinks their 2005 seniority was damaged some how is not right. I also hope the future does not require a strike to solve the contractual issue again.
But things have a way of repeating themselves.
Somewhere around 1100 pilots crossed the picket line. 570 of them, were talked out of it after the fact.
Their intent, and action, was the same. 80% of my trips my first 7 years at United were with 85 hires. Trust me, they are one in the same.
01-03-2016, 10:30 AM
#86
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
That is against everything I have been told. It doesn't matter when you were "pre-hired". I was "pre-hired" in Sept. I started at United in Dec. I was "hired" in Dec.
Somewhere around 1100 pilots crossed the picket line. 570 of them, were talked out of it after the fact.
Their intent, and action, was the same. 80% of my trips my first 7 years at United were with 85 hires. Trust me, they are one in the same.
Somewhere around 1100 pilots crossed the picket line. 570 of them, were talked out of it after the fact.
Their intent, and action, was the same. 80% of my trips my first 7 years at United were with 85 hires. Trust me, they are one in the same.
What the other guy said about never crossing and being fired makes more sense. Your explanation doesn't jive with RLA.
My LUAL friend says explained this once and he said there was a different group of 500+ pilots who were hired during the strike and they were in training when the strike ended. The intent was to strike, but they never actually turned a wheel. Maybe that's who you are thinking of?
01-03-2016, 11:00 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Probe
You have no idea what you are writing about.
As I wrote, I know the details first hand, I know the law suits and I know who were and are real scabs.
I may have also forgotten to mention I believe all the "Tracy Aces" were retired by 1985. If not there might have been two left on property.
They were called that because they were hired and trained by UAL in Tracy, CA during WWII young and Captains most of their career.
I met only one "Tracy Ace" in 1978 who was still flying. He was a DC10 Captain who let me jump seat with him when we didn't have pass privileges.
You have no idea what you are writing about.
As I wrote, I know the details first hand, I know the law suits and I know who were and are real scabs.
I may have also forgotten to mention I believe all the "Tracy Aces" were retired by 1985. If not there might have been two left on property.
They were called that because they were hired and trained by UAL in Tracy, CA during WWII young and Captains most of their career.
I met only one "Tracy Ace" in 1978 who was still flying. He was a DC10 Captain who let me jump seat with him when we didn't have pass privileges.
01-03-2016, 12:38 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
Probe
You have no idea what you are writing about.
As I wrote, I know the details first hand, I know the law suits and I know who were and are real scabs.
I may have also forgotten to mention I believe all the "Tracy Aces" were retired by 1985. If not there might have been two left on property.
They were called that because they were hired and trained by UAL in Tracy, CA during WWII young and Captains most of their career.
I met only one "Tracy Ace" in 1978 who was still flying. He was a DC10 Captain who let me jump seat with him when we didn't have pass privileges.
You have no idea what you are writing about.
As I wrote, I know the details first hand, I know the law suits and I know who were and are real scabs.
I may have also forgotten to mention I believe all the "Tracy Aces" were retired by 1985. If not there might have been two left on property.
They were called that because they were hired and trained by UAL in Tracy, CA during WWII young and Captains most of their career.
I met only one "Tracy Ace" in 1978 who was still flying. He was a DC10 Captain who let me jump seat with him when we didn't have pass privileges.
I don't usually weigh in on scab and revisionist strike history, but I can't let this one go. My family is UAL. My dad retired after a long UAL career and our family was threatened by the scabs.
To Regular guy, thanks for your post. This is pretty much what we went though, and what I remember.
To Probe.....my sympathies. There are several good references on the strike, "Flying the Line," not to mention "On Wooden Wings," by Pat Palozolo. Please review these before speaking again about the scabs and the UAL '85 strike.
Probe, you need a few reminders about the facts.
01-04-2016, 06:04 AM
#90
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: next to chronic complainers...
Posts: 364
Here's an example of "aviation market liberation"; it's only the beginning of new trade agreements between US and the rest of the world.
How long, before those trades will liberate us from good profits?!
Low-cost Mexican carriers could be big winners with new aviation deal: Travel Weekly
Vote YES, Take the money, before we find our airlines compete on new "liberated market", asking us to "help out" a little!
No voters are pushing for full negations; it's a promise like a santa with a sack of goodies; grow up, there's no santa, your parents have tricked you.
How long, before those trades will liberate us from good profits?!
Low-cost Mexican carriers could be big winners with new aviation deal: Travel Weekly
Vote YES, Take the money, before we find our airlines compete on new "liberated market", asking us to "help out" a little!
No voters are pushing for full negations; it's a promise like a santa with a sack of goodies; grow up, there's no santa, your parents have tricked you.
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