View Poll Results: What say you?
Yes
214
72.30%
No
82
27.70%
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Extension TA Poll
01-11-2016, 05:52 PM
#243
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,085
It's January 11th. If you think a week of market declines determines our bargaining environment that is ridiculously short-sighted.
Oil is $31/barrel. UAL is still buying back $4B in stock, 82% of the US market is controlled by four airline networks. UAL will make $4-5B this year and cash flow is through the roof. The company has come to us for FDP extension relief three times in the last twelve months and FRMS relief twice in the past eight months. The pilot/pay shortage will only get worse.
Those are objective facts.
Oil is $31/barrel. UAL is still buying back $4B in stock, 82% of the US market is controlled by four airline networks. UAL will make $4-5B this year and cash flow is through the roof. The company has come to us for FDP extension relief three times in the last twelve months and FRMS relief twice in the past eight months. The pilot/pay shortage will only get worse.
Those are objective facts.
United Expects Steeper Decline in Key Revenue Metric
Airline cites reduced travel by corporate customers in the oil industry and impact of Paris attacks
By MARIA ARMENTAL
Jan. 11, 2016 7:12 p.m. ET
United Continental Holdings Inc. is projecting a larger decline in a key passenger-revenue metric, citing travel cuts from oil-patch corporate customers, the impact of Paris terror attacks along with softening domestic yields.
Yield is the average price a person pays to fly one mile, excluding taxes and fees.
On Monday, the carrier said unit revenue, or how much it makes for each passenger flown a mile, would decline 4.4% to 4.5% for the year ended Dec. 31, compared with its previous view of a 3.9% to 4.4% decline.
Traffic, however, rose 1.5% for the year, bolstered by a 3.1% increase in the fourth quarter, the carrier said.
Meanwhile, capacity rose 1.6% in 2015, led by a 2.9% increase from international flights.
The load factor, or percentage of seats filled, edged down 0.2 percentage point for the year to 83.4% despite a 1 percentage point improvement in the fourth quarter.
The company expects to report a fourth-quarter hedge loss of $285 million, but it said fourth-quarter unit costs excluding fuel were better than originally projected.
Shares, down 21% over the past 12 months, rose 0.25% to $51.75 in late trading.
01-11-2016, 08:33 PM
#244
work nights and weekends
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: United SFO B-737
Posts: 202
I Appreciate Heidi's view of the meeting. I was there after the first hour and my take on most of her points is just the opposite. Guess it depends on your history, place on the seniority list, politics, etc.
I found it informative, Greg and Jay both informative but also informed. FWIW
I found it informative, Greg and Jay both informative but also informed. FWIW
01-12-2016, 07:36 AM
#245
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 32
"No change to reserve is a concession through the extension of this JCBA. "
Of course the Council 5 rep is pushing historical revisionism and what the term "concession" means.
The truth is this TA gave up nothing, NADA, not one concession!!!!
Except:
The chance of negotiation improvements over the life of the TA.
So in the minds of many the inability to negotiate something is a "concession."
Folks let's get real and quit being so hyperbolic and diversionary. Vote yes or no, it's that simple.
Of course the Council 5 rep is pushing historical revisionism and what the term "concession" means.
The truth is this TA gave up nothing, NADA, not one concession!!!!
Except:
The chance of negotiation improvements over the life of the TA.
So in the minds of many the inability to negotiate something is a "concession."
Folks let's get real and quit being so hyperbolic and diversionary. Vote yes or no, it's that simple.
01-12-2016, 07:45 AM
#246
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
Vice Chairman Tom Murphy voiced an interesting perspective, that when he was a P2P Coordinator for the JCBA (UPA), a lot of pilots had various complaints about the UPA and his number one talking point was that all of the things that are wrong with the UPA would be fixed during the next Section 6 negotiations, at a time when we were one unified pilot group.
I raised my hand and asked a question regarding our current UPA, which was how much did our work rules cost out relative to our payroll costs? In other words, do work rules tend to add up to at least equal or more in dollar value vs. pay rates. Everhard danced around the answer and finally said he would have to get back to me on that.
Everhard danced around the answer and finally said he would have to get back to me on that. I find this pretty amazing coming from one of the very people whom we have collectively tasked with fully understanding the costing and valuations of our UPA so that he can negotiate for us, and I’ll point out that this fellow is one of the Negotiating Committee members whom your previous Council 34 Reps. Fired from that same job.
Heide, weren't you fired from an ALPA position? Politics or incompetence?
When a Q & A time came for Heppner, the first question asked was how did we arrive at a 13% pay raise? He responded that the company only wanted to give 10%. When pressed further by the questioning pilot Jay said he started off really high by asking for…wait for it…17%! Wow! What a high shooter! That really makes a lot of how things have gone for us over the last five years snap right into view with that revelation!
The next question fielded was why did he bring us no relief on our terrible reserve system? He responded by saying that the company actually wanted concessions there, and since they wanted concessions he told them to just take that item off the table. This was not the direction he was given by our MEC.
I then followed up my question by saying, "Jay, you always told me to make decisions based on fact." He nodded yes, and I went on to point out that we have very likely lost the ME3 and NAI battle in Washington DC. An opinion that I have come to after working in DC for many years. And while we have yet to feel the ramifications of those massive assaults on our profession, it’s very possible that the major U.S. airlines have less than a decade left of widespread international flying. With the upper end of our profession under a multi-pronged assault that we are very likely to feel strongly, how does kicking the can down the road 3 years into the possibly short life span of our wide body flying put us in a good position. The room got dead silent, and I kid you not that you could hear a pin drop as the weight of what I had just proposed dropped in on everyone in attendance. Heppner shrugged his shoulders and said nothing.
01-12-2016, 07:51 AM
#247
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 32
SWAPA and DALPA seem to be having a very difficult time of it.
Respectfully, I have one question. If we can't get the company to honor our current contract, what good does it do to get a better contract that - one would logically assume - also won't be honored? We need to fix that first.
Respectfully, I have one question. If we can't get the company to honor our current contract, what good does it do to get a better contract that - one would logically assume - also won't be honored? We need to fix that first.
01-12-2016, 08:05 AM
#248
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
The company doesn't honor our current contract because we are push overs and they know it. They have been pushing us around for years and we have been buying whatever they've been selling. Until we stand our ground as a collective whole will they consider us an entity that needs to be handled with a different approach. We don't stand our ground on anything.
Angry militant pilots have worn me out - I'm tired of all of the Pyrrhic [strike]V-i-c-t-o-r-i-e-s[/strike] Losses. I'm tired of making every little anthill a mountainous fight where it's always someone else's fault. I need a two year breather from all of the anger and just want to go to work, do my job, and go home without all of the drama.
01-12-2016, 08:24 AM
#249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
I think that is it in a nutshell. The company has worn us out. The majority of us aren't willing to fight or don't think the UPA is bad enough to fight to improve it. Hopefully, the Delta and Southwest pilots aren't in the same boat.
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