gettinbumped

Ha! Absolutely. I completely understand and agree with your point. And it reminds me that we are all just mentally master&$&-g here until we actually see what's in there. I would think soon, no? Aren't we around the "2-3" weeks since the AIP was announced? I would think the MEC will get their hands on it soon.

AllenAllert

Clear as a bell, snipe from the gallery and leave the real work for others.

Regularguy

As I read this thread on thought occurred to me, Christmas.

Many of the conversations here remind men of when Christmas, you know that anticipation of what's under the tree. Did Santa bring me what I wanted, or are there shirts, ties and underwear again.

I was nice this year.

gettinbumped

So let me get this straight.... you insult me when you insinuate I would mount a recall effort, and then label that same recall effort you decried as "the real work" when you are informed that your ASSumption is wrong (as usual).

Is your last name Trump by chance?

Back to ignoring your existence

Probe

GB;
Don't feed Staller.

Probe

Hi Staller.

AllenAllert

You'll have to excuse me if you think I was trying to insult you. I haven't gotten into the merits pro/con of any potential AIP, but I've read most of your and Probe's hard-sell post. I, like most of the pilots, respect the process and the people that represent the pilots. We elected them to represent ALL the pilots and they've done a pretty good job.

The pig-in-a-poke you've been selling has convinced at least one pilot with 20 years that's voted NO on every agreement and plans to yes on this AIP even though he's not seen it. I don't think many will be that shortsighted to make a decision before reading it. We'll see how the MEC and the rest of the pilots feel about the AIP. They may be smarter than you give them credit.

gettinbumped

I appreciate the thoughtful and reasonable post. I agree that our MEC does a very good job representing us, and trust them to make the right decision here. With regards to making up ones mind about yes/no, you're absolutely correct that this is all hypothetical mental gynmastics until we see the actual deal (or IF we ever see the actual deal. Theoretically if the MEC turns it down we will never actually get to even look at it). All the discussion is based on rumor and if the rumors are wrong then the discussion will change.

The reason I come across as a "hard sell" is probably due to my desire to counteract what I perceived to be a chorus of folks that were declaring they would vote HELL NO to the agreement based on the fact that apparently there aren't any reserve changes included. We all know that an angry pilot is a loud pilot in many cases, and sometimes the din from the minority can rule the day if it gets loud enough. That's one of the issues I have with our union process in general: council direction is given at a meeting with 15 pilots attending out of a base of 1500. There has to be a more inclusive way. Even in these forum discussions, which have no bearing on anything, it's basically 3 "no" posts for every "yes" post, even though the informal poll was a 75% or so "yes" vote.

I get your point though that it's probably obnoxious to hear me drivel on about the same thing over 20 pages of posts. Fear not though... nobody listens to me anyway. Just ask any one of my ex-girlfriends . I know you think I'm some management plant, but I'm just an average line pilot who wants the best working conditions and pay possible for myself, my FO's, my fellow UAL pilots, and the profession in general. I appreciate the countless hours and hard work that all the reps put in, our MC puts in, and the negotiating committee puts in.

You're definitely correct that I've wasted too much time spouting my opinion here on something we all agree is just an exercise at this point without knowing whether we will actually even get to see the finished product. Luckily I was going to retire from this discussion anyway to handle some family issues, so I'll sign off to all of you and say Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and thank you for the thoughtful and interesting posts. I always learn a lot from reading the opinions and thoughts posted here and value the information. Hoping we all see a lucrative and prosperous New Year and future. My apologies to those I've offended.

jsled

Three weeks Friday. Hope we see it by then. Meanwhile..The MOAB (mother of all bids) is due out today. No fences! Plenty of fodder to mentally masturb@te over.

Dave Fitzgerald

Wrong.....the was changed and tested years ago by Paul Whiteford and the infamous RJ give away.

The MEC can decide what constitutes "substantially affects." They decide what it means. If they decide a 100% pay cut doesn't substantially affect the pilot population, the membership doesn't ever see it. The MEC is also a filter, if it's a turd, no point in ever bringing it to the pilots. A bit of antiquated cost control? Elections, before internet voting, cost quite a bit of time and money.

That is the rabbit hole these guys are afraid of, and frankly, a valid fear. Now, for the fallout....decertify ALPA, recalls, hangings in effigy....you get the idea. But, it is possible.