AIP->TA->Ratification Timeline
12-02-2015, 07:35 AM
#41
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Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
No fighting boys
Unfortunately 13-3-2 percent will pass if it gets to a vote
12-02-2015, 09:07 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start.....
Posts: 193
12-02-2015, 09:32 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Head pillow fluffer, Assistant bed maker
Posts: 1,315
????? Signing bonus? I have not seen one indication of any signing bonus.....even there was do you really think a first year FO should get the same as a 25 year capt?
12-02-2015, 11:31 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 747 Captain, retired
Posts: 928
I have not heard of a signing bonus but if there is, it should be divided equally amongst the eligible voting pilot. Not by w2 earnings.
12-02-2015, 11:44 AM
#45
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Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,039
12-02-2015, 12:48 PM
#46
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
If everyone got one vote, then yes I think it should be split evenly among all eligible voters. Do senior guys get more votes?
12-02-2015, 12:53 PM
#47
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
I think that it should be divided equally among the members in good standing. After all, it's a signing bonus, not a seniority bonus.
12-02-2015, 01:00 PM
#48
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Its not about the argument. Many of the no voters have made a few things clear. First, they are angry at the company and ALPA for the last 15 years. Age 65, retirements, pay cuts, merger, etc. Some pilots have firmly placed themselves into the victim category. They are victims of the SLI that placed furloughees ahead of them or '05 hires ahead of '98 hires. They are victims of having lost or had their retirement frozen. The victim will always be a victim. The AIP just exposed many of them. They are so well adept at playing victim, they have come out and feel they are once again being victimized. The company wants something that they own, and they won't give it up without a fight. The always look at what they gave away, what they might lose, and what they might get if they wait it out and re-negotiate. Their emotions rule. They can't see the value in more money or anything else that benefits them because they will always feel like they got cheated out of something else. The key phrase with the AIP is....
"The company must really want something from us".
The is the preface of their victim argument and why they want to create more victims in the process. Just look at the last contract. The "no" voters were victims to the "yes" voters. Many "yes" voters were victims to management's game of dividing the pilot group.
I'm done being a victim. I'd like my fellow pilots to be done being victims as well and just trust the people on our side who negotiated this for us. I haven't decided how I'm going to vote, but it won't be a result of perceived victimization.
"The company must really want something from us".
The is the preface of their victim argument and why they want to create more victims in the process. Just look at the last contract. The "no" voters were victims to the "yes" voters. Many "yes" voters were victims to management's game of dividing the pilot group.
I'm done being a victim. I'd like my fellow pilots to be done being victims as well and just trust the people on our side who negotiated this for us. I haven't decided how I'm going to vote, but it won't be a result of perceived victimization.
I don't consider myself a victim. But I am disillusioned with how quickly we tend to give things away. I'm a poor loser and we seem to lose far more often than not. I think that this is an opportunity to score a win. While many think this deal is a home run, I consider it no more than a double. Get a few MINOR, nearly zero cost (to the company) freebies thrown in and I'd call it a triple. That's the issue. The Stockholm Syndrome displayed by airline pilots is astonishing. I find it nauseating.
JH says "no concessions". I submit that its already a concessionary contract. And we're going to cast it in stone (again) and put the next one on a slow boat to Beijing.
PS. The company really DOES want something from us.
Last edited by oldmako; 12-02-2015 at 01:19 PM.
12-02-2015, 02:05 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 747 Captain, retired
Posts: 928
ALPA should advise the pilots in good standing HOW THE MONEY WILL BE DIVIDED BEFORE the vote - I think thats fair. But hey, there ain't no stinking signing bonus so why debate this at all.
Last edited by krudawg; 12-02-2015 at 02:05 PM. Reason: spelling
12-02-2015, 02:09 PM
#50
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
I think the debate is healthy. None of this happens in a vacuum. It will be presented and there will probably be a very short window to debate its merits, or lack thereof. We might as well flesh some of it out ahead of time.
When the sales job begins we'll recognize it sooner for what it is. I can still hear guys saying, "oh the company would never do that" when others poked holes in the loose language during the last road shows. Plus, this may be a first rodeo for some of the FNG's. We've hired how many since the last agreement? It might behoove them to see how their dues dollars are being spent and what political shenanigans occur anytime a large pile of money is dumped on a table around here.
When the sales job begins we'll recognize it sooner for what it is. I can still hear guys saying, "oh the company would never do that" when others poked holes in the loose language during the last road shows. Plus, this may be a first rodeo for some of the FNG's. We've hired how many since the last agreement? It might behoove them to see how their dues dollars are being spent and what political shenanigans occur anytime a large pile of money is dumped on a table around here.
Last edited by oldmako; 12-02-2015 at 02:27 PM.
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