Contract extension AIP bullet points
11-21-2015, 03:24 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
[QUOTE=buscappy;2014559]
Of course it's an over simplification. The union also presents contracts by stating for example, it's a 30% raise 15, 10, 5 over the life of the contract. Compounding does have it's effect. I'm simply stating my belief that what we are offering the company is worth more than the initial raise offered and the value over the life of the contract extension. Which we all know will be more than three years.
If...all true, we are netting a 15% pay raise. (16+3+2-3-3%) A 15% raise .....
look, clearly pilots aren't expected to be financial experts, but listen, any high school kid can do better math than this analysis. percentages are relative - a percentage of some other number. percentage raises don't add and subtract like apples. that 16% up front makes the 3% worth a lot more in dollars than a 3% would be without a 16% raise ahead of it. i only point this out hoping maybe 15% of pilots on the forum got at least a C in high school math - which may be hoping for too much eh
look, clearly pilots aren't expected to be financial experts, but listen, any high school kid can do better math than this analysis. percentages are relative - a percentage of some other number. percentage raises don't add and subtract like apples. that 16% up front makes the 3% worth a lot more in dollars than a 3% would be without a 16% raise ahead of it. i only point this out hoping maybe 15% of pilots on the forum got at least a C in high school math - which may be hoping for too much eh
Of course it's an over simplification. The union also presents contracts by stating for example, it's a 30% raise 15, 10, 5 over the life of the contract. Compounding does have it's effect. I'm simply stating my belief that what we are offering the company is worth more than the initial raise offered and the value over the life of the contract extension. Which we all know will be more than three years.
11-21-2015, 04:09 AM
#32
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
To play devils advocate, that 15% for 3 years is real money. For an average Captain, that's $30k a year x 3 years, or $90k. You assume that the contract would be on time. I can't remember the last time we had one of those! Let's say it goes another 2 years that's 15% per year while we negotiate, or ANOTHER $60k. Assuming DAL doesn't get a raise in the next 3 years above us. So you are reasonably talking $150k in extra pay over 5 years. That's not chump change.
I don't see the increased international flying and flexibility as a win for just the company. It's important for us to be able to utilize our new aircraft coming in to their fullest. That revenue that you say benefits the company also benefits us: profit sharing, health of the airline, increased international flying, etc.
On the flip side, if the rumor is true, no improvements in reserve rules is very disappointing, and the money isn't as good as I was hoping it would be. There are certainly some things that could stand to be improved through Section 6 that are important and the discussion is definitely approate as to whether it makes sense to accept this or turn it down and wait to start a full Section 6 in a year or so. I'll wait for the details and an explanation from the negotiating committee to decide how I'm going to vote
I don't see the increased international flying and flexibility as a win for just the company. It's important for us to be able to utilize our new aircraft coming in to their fullest. That revenue that you say benefits the company also benefits us: profit sharing, health of the airline, increased international flying, etc.
On the flip side, if the rumor is true, no improvements in reserve rules is very disappointing, and the money isn't as good as I was hoping it would be. There are certainly some things that could stand to be improved through Section 6 that are important and the discussion is definitely approate as to whether it makes sense to accept this or turn it down and wait to start a full Section 6 in a year or so. I'll wait for the details and an explanation from the negotiating committee to decide how I'm going to vote
We are essentially trading $ for QOL. Quality of life is too important to me and thereby raises the bar for my satisfaction.
In as far as the "if it benefits the airline it benefits us argument," one could say if we work for free under zero constraints, the airline would be healthy, profit sharing would be Trump HUGE, and there would be increased international flying. Contrary to that, if we all made $1mi/700k per year with stifling work rules, the company might cease operations as we know it. Those statementd by themselves are irrational but it goes to show there is a point where the trade-off is in equilibrium. I'm not finding my equilibrium in these rumours.
If the agreement passes the mec I hope only the facts are presented to the membership. History is not in my favor.
11-21-2015, 05:42 AM
#35
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
The real problem with reserve is this:
1. Pilots bid highest pay position and then get stuck on reserve.
2. Pilots try to commute to reserve.
3. Pilots do both and then wonder why life sucks.
The problem is everyone wants the life of the most senior pilots and it just doesn't happen. We could do what lUAL F/As do, rotate reserve so the jounior people don't get stuck forever on reserve.
There's no good way to make reserve perfect. Accept to live near the airport.
1. Pilots bid highest pay position and then get stuck on reserve.
2. Pilots try to commute to reserve.
3. Pilots do both and then wonder why life sucks.
The problem is everyone wants the life of the most senior pilots and it just doesn't happen. We could do what lUAL F/As do, rotate reserve so the jounior people don't get stuck forever on reserve.
There's no good way to make reserve perfect. Accept to live near the airport.
11-21-2015, 05:45 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: EWR 777 FO
Posts: 187
The real problem with reserve is this:
1. Pilots bid highest pay position and then get stuck on reserve.
2. Pilots try to commute to reserve.
3. Pilots do both and then wonder why life sucks.
The problem is everyone wants the life of the most senior pilots and it just doesn't happen. We could do what lUAL F/As do, rotate reserve so the jounior people don't get stuck forever on reserve.
There's no good way to make reserve perfect. Accept to live near the airport.
1. Pilots bid highest pay position and then get stuck on reserve.
2. Pilots try to commute to reserve.
3. Pilots do both and then wonder why life sucks.
The problem is everyone wants the life of the most senior pilots and it just doesn't happen. We could do what lUAL F/As do, rotate reserve so the jounior people don't get stuck forever on reserve.
There's no good way to make reserve perfect. Accept to live near the airport.
11-21-2015, 06:32 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
The real problem with reserve is this:
1. Pilots bid highest pay position and then get stuck on reserve.
2. Pilots try to commute to reserve.
3. Pilots do both and then wonder why life sucks.
The problem is everyone wants the life of the most senior pilots and it just doesn't happen. We could do what lUAL F/As do, rotate reserve so the jounior people don't get stuck forever on reserve.
There's no good way to make reserve perfect. Accept to live near the airport.
1. Pilots bid highest pay position and then get stuck on reserve.
2. Pilots try to commute to reserve.
3. Pilots do both and then wonder why life sucks.
The problem is everyone wants the life of the most senior pilots and it just doesn't happen. We could do what lUAL F/As do, rotate reserve so the jounior people don't get stuck forever on reserve.
There's no good way to make reserve perfect. Accept to live near the airport.
11-21-2015, 06:33 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
You and I know the influences on the last contract were far and wide. Some will still try to gauge future votes based on that contract since it was the first as a combined(a reach at best) group.
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