Bluewaffle

Boeing's possible deal with United Airlines could be a big blow for Bombardier - The Globe and Mail

The plot thickens

Sniper66

After the TA results, I expect for them to order

30 B737-700 , 5 B777-300 (in order to keep the lines open for the Max and 777x)


Also to get this aircraft going
40 CS100
40 CS300




Along with 42 used A319 that we know about it

Hiring 1000 for 2016 and 1000 for 2017 is the proof
Retirements are only 785 for the next 2 years

GPullR

CS is not coming

UAL T38 Phlyer

Disregard!!

(Mis-read previous post).

CLazarus

I knew that was coming!

David Puddy

This makes too much sense - which is why it won't happen. Boeing, Airbus and Embraer will do whatever they can to prevent a viable alternative to their older, less-advanced airplanes so that they can maintain their price points for newer airplanes. UAL will cave and probably take Embraer or older, cast-off 737-700s like the ones Boeing desperately offered UAL very recently.... Boeing does not have a new product to provide in the100-120 seat category and it is desperate to block Bombardier since a potential CS500 (150+ seats) could be offered down the line if the CS100 and bigger CS300 do well.

Again, the C-Series is a game changer from a technology and passenger comfort perspective:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9yWF9cCVJY

But that does not matter to a bean counter in a negotiation...

CLazarus

I noticed the announcement of new nonstop DEN to RIC service the other day (by Skywest, on 175s I assume). Good example of a longer thin route that would be well suited for NSNBs. Interestingly, I looked at Wikipedia for prices of E-195/CS-100/CS-300/7Max and found the price per seat was roughly $570k/$680k/$630k/$720k respectively. Of course, I'm not at all sure how accurate Wikipedia's numbers really are, and they each came from different sources but it didn't seem like the C Series is that much more expensive. Couldn't find any prices there for E-2, but I'd imagine they'd be close to C Series numbers. With a narrower fuselage than the 700/7 Max, I'd think both the E-2 and CS would have a significant fuel burn advantage - but with prices so low who cares I guess. I imagine Bombardier has got to be getting really, really desperate after that article about the deal Boeing seems to be cutting...

cadetdrivr

IMHO, there is only ONE reason that article ever made the light of day: to make Bombardier and/or Embraer desperate. If UA simply had plans to order additional 737-700s we'd never hear about it until the deal was signed.

UA "wins" regardless of what is eventually ordered but in the interim all the players are putting their best deals on the table with wildly different strategic goals.

Besides, only the C-Series and E-Jets provide UA 76-seat RJ scope relief so negotiating in public means the deal is getting close and this leak is also undoubtably related to the stated reasons for removing the new small jet requirement from the TA.

David Puddy

Fred Cromer, the new CEO of Bombardier, formerly ran ILFC - the huge aircraft lessor. If anyone knows how to do a deal, he does! It's obvious Boeing wants Bombardier to discount more to get the deal.

SWISS will have the first CS100 operating in the coming months and the market will be able to assess its operating capabilities.

bvt1151

Only thing the same on the E2 and the original E-190 is the fuselage. Wing, engines, empenage, avionics, systems, landing gear, flight controls... all different. Hasn't even flown yet with as much risk as the C Series.