More Small Narrow Body talk
01-11-2016, 10:15 AM
#211
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Q&A 2 contradicts itself. It says you must move up the hierarchy, but then the explanation says you'd have to lateral to captain in the same equipment. So in your example, a 777 FO bidding down to 756 FO, then bidding 737 CA would meet the metric of moving up the hierarchy, would it not?
No, it does not.
If a SFO 777 FO bids 756 FO that is down. In that case a Section 8-D-2 Bidding Freeze applies. That new 756 FO cannot bid 737 CA for 24 months. The pilot could ONLY bid 756 CA or New Equipment. (Also a lateral refers to staying in the same seat and equipment not moving up seats).
From the UPA:
8-D-2 Bidding Freeze
8-D-2-a When a Pilot is awarded an assignment through vacancy bidding and such award does not move him from a lower-numbered band to a higher-numbered band in accordance with Section 8-D-1-d, he may be ineligible to be awarded any other vacancy for twenty-four (24) months. However, a Pilot shall be eligible to be awarded a vacancy for a “lateral” award (i.e., change in Base only; present Equipment and Status remain the same) without incurring an additional bidding freeze.
8-D-2-b A bidding freeze shall begin the first day a Pilot starts training or, if training is not required, on the date of his Activation, and shall apply to any vacancy bid whose closing date falls within the duration of the freeze.
8-D-2-c A bidding freeze shall not restrict a Pilot from bidding for a Captain vacancy in his current Equipment type, nor from bidding to a new Base (a Base shall be considered “new” for vacancies with effective dates within six (6) months of the effective date of the first vacancy bulletin for that new Base).
Hope this helps!
V/R
SP
01-11-2016, 10:17 AM
#212
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My take on that exception is that it allows an FO to bid down to equipment that s/he wants to be CA on so that s/he can get some experience on the aircraft before bidding CA.
For instance, suppose you've been a 777 FO for 7+ years and want to bid 320 CA, but want to be familiar with the equipment before going through CA school so you bid 320 FO and fly the line for 6 months before bidding 320 CA. That's why I think they allow FO to CA upgrades on the same equipment even if you have a seat lock.
For instance, suppose you've been a 777 FO for 7+ years and want to bid 320 CA, but want to be familiar with the equipment before going through CA school so you bid 320 FO and fly the line for 6 months before bidding 320 CA. That's why I think they allow FO to CA upgrades on the same equipment even if you have a seat lock.
Yes, this is the case!
SP
01-11-2016, 11:27 AM
#215
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Grumble,
I thought it was VCR instructions
Short answer…
If bidding down a pay group, sideways within one, or taking a New Equipment bid it is worth reading 8-D-2 or 8-D-3 VERY closely. Saw a few examples of pilots getting caught by the 8-D-2 Bidding Freeze going WB FO to WB FO, thinking it worked like an 8-D-1 Training Freeze.
The NSNB will also bring up 8-D-3 New Equipment Freezes. Any FOs or other CAs that want to be the first to try the NSNB out as a CA will see seat locks for the first 24 months of the aircraft's revenue service.
SP
I thought it was VCR instructions
Short answer…
If bidding down a pay group, sideways within one, or taking a New Equipment bid it is worth reading 8-D-2 or 8-D-3 VERY closely. Saw a few examples of pilots getting caught by the 8-D-2 Bidding Freeze going WB FO to WB FO, thinking it worked like an 8-D-1 Training Freeze.
The NSNB will also bring up 8-D-3 New Equipment Freezes. Any FOs or other CAs that want to be the first to try the NSNB out as a CA will see seat locks for the first 24 months of the aircraft's revenue service.
SP
01-14-2016, 09:17 AM
#216
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
But...But the ASTERISK!!! The ASTERISK!!! Everyone knows they are going to replace all Guppy and Bus flying with THE ASTERISK!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhrggggh
Boeing sets sights on $2 bln United small jets order - sources
11:46am ET, 01/14/2016 - Reuters
By Tim Hepher and Jeffrey Dastin
PARIS/NEW YORK, Jan 14 (Reuters) - United Airlines is close to deciding an order for about 30 small jets worth around $2 billion at list prices and Boeing looks well placed to win at least part of the deal after undercutting smaller rivals, industry sources said.
A decision by the Chicago-based airline to pick Boeing's 737-700 jet would be a blow for Canada's Bombardier, which has courted United as a key prospect for its struggling CSeries, and potentially Brazil's Embraer as well.
United's requirement for 100-seat aircraft is in the natural hunting ground for those manufacturers, but Boeing waded in with highly competitive offers for its slightly larger 737-700, which officially seats 126 passengers, the sources said.
Still, a deal has not been finalised and could face last-minute shifts in negotiations that have already been marked by heavy discounting, the sources said.
"It's the January sale," one source close to the talks said.
United said it did not discuss future fleet plans. Boeing said it did not discuss market speculation. Bombardier, Embraer and Airbus, another possible contender, also declined comment.
United is cutting the number of 50-seat jets it contracts to others to fly under its United Express brand and moving towards larger and more efficient planes flown by its own pilots.
United's tender for 30 or more 100-seaters ignited a fierce battle at the lower end of the $130 billion annual jet market, where the Airbus-Boeing duopoly is most under threat.
Bombardier is looking for a headline-grabbing win from a big name such as United or JetBlue as its flagship CSeries jet prepares to enter service after delays and cash problems.
Embraer is seeking an endorsement from an existing customer with at least part of the deal, while analysts say Boeing is keen to fill spaces in its production line as it prepares for the transition to a new version of its single-aisle 737 series.
Airbus and Boeing have seen little demand for their smallest single-aisle variants as demand surges for more popular 150-200 seaters. But they enjoy significant firepower to offer discounts due to high overall volumes and low marginal costs.
One consoling factor for Airbus and Boeing from slow sales of the 737-700 and A319 is that they can slash prices for those planes without contaminating future deals, one source said. Demand for both, and their future revamped equivalents, is thin.
Aircraft valuations expert Stuart Hatcher of UK-based IBA Group said during an industry briefing that despite a recent dearth of orders, the CSeries should increase its presence this year. But he warned that the market for small jetliners could be smaller than Bombardier hoped because of more new competition. (Additional reporting by Allison Lampert in Montreal, Brad Haynes in Sao Paulo, Andrea Shalal in Washington, Alwyn Scott in New York; editing by David Clarke)
Boeing sets sights on $2 bln United small jets order - sources
11:46am ET, 01/14/2016 - Reuters
By Tim Hepher and Jeffrey Dastin
PARIS/NEW YORK, Jan 14 (Reuters) - United Airlines is close to deciding an order for about 30 small jets worth around $2 billion at list prices and Boeing looks well placed to win at least part of the deal after undercutting smaller rivals, industry sources said.
A decision by the Chicago-based airline to pick Boeing's 737-700 jet would be a blow for Canada's Bombardier, which has courted United as a key prospect for its struggling CSeries, and potentially Brazil's Embraer as well.
United's requirement for 100-seat aircraft is in the natural hunting ground for those manufacturers, but Boeing waded in with highly competitive offers for its slightly larger 737-700, which officially seats 126 passengers, the sources said.
Still, a deal has not been finalised and could face last-minute shifts in negotiations that have already been marked by heavy discounting, the sources said.
"It's the January sale," one source close to the talks said.
United said it did not discuss future fleet plans. Boeing said it did not discuss market speculation. Bombardier, Embraer and Airbus, another possible contender, also declined comment.
United is cutting the number of 50-seat jets it contracts to others to fly under its United Express brand and moving towards larger and more efficient planes flown by its own pilots.
United's tender for 30 or more 100-seaters ignited a fierce battle at the lower end of the $130 billion annual jet market, where the Airbus-Boeing duopoly is most under threat.
Bombardier is looking for a headline-grabbing win from a big name such as United or JetBlue as its flagship CSeries jet prepares to enter service after delays and cash problems.
Embraer is seeking an endorsement from an existing customer with at least part of the deal, while analysts say Boeing is keen to fill spaces in its production line as it prepares for the transition to a new version of its single-aisle 737 series.
Airbus and Boeing have seen little demand for their smallest single-aisle variants as demand surges for more popular 150-200 seaters. But they enjoy significant firepower to offer discounts due to high overall volumes and low marginal costs.
One consoling factor for Airbus and Boeing from slow sales of the 737-700 and A319 is that they can slash prices for those planes without contaminating future deals, one source said. Demand for both, and their future revamped equivalents, is thin.
Aircraft valuations expert Stuart Hatcher of UK-based IBA Group said during an industry briefing that despite a recent dearth of orders, the CSeries should increase its presence this year. But he warned that the market for small jetliners could be smaller than Bombardier hoped because of more new competition. (Additional reporting by Allison Lampert in Montreal, Brad Haynes in Sao Paulo, Andrea Shalal in Washington, Alwyn Scott in New York; editing by David Clarke)
01-15-2016, 08:50 AM
#219
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Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Reclining
Posts: 840
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