Company asked for 2 year extension
09-26-2015, 06:58 AM
#51
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
...............
One of the reasons contracts take so long to negotiate, is all the participating parties are profiting by its' delay. The company gets us to work for less, and dozens, if not a few hundred ALPA guys get 90 hours a month, for YEARS, staying at the Ritz, full per diem, to negotiate. Every hear the joke about a divorce lawyer not wanting a quick and easy divorce? It is the same.
One of the reasons contracts take so long to negotiate, is all the participating parties are profiting by its' delay. The company gets us to work for less, and dozens, if not a few hundred ALPA guys get 90 hours a month, for YEARS, staying at the Ritz, full per diem, to negotiate. Every hear the joke about a divorce lawyer not wanting a quick and easy divorce? It is the same.
Yup. I think it can cost us. Pilots are highly susceptible to the siren song of pay rates alone. MEC agrees to listen, company leaks the new pay rates, next thing you know line pilots are knocking down the door to get the money or get rid of union officers who stand in the way. Or, we listen, say no thank you, then they spread the usual ill will among other employee groups and the public that we're just your typical greedy pilots wanting to bring down the company. I say no talk except to say it's in everyone's best interest to simply negotiate a new contract in good faith by next spring. We're willing. Are they.
09-26-2015, 10:06 AM
#52
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: next to chronic complainers...
Posts: 364
Yes, I agree with all that, but I also wish to point out while it's certainly just business, it will take talent and the right people to run this airline. It will take the right people to negotiate contracts, but seriously, we are doomed if we can't get good people in there to save the airline (again). I don't like our long term prospects for success with the current talent pool in the executive suite.
09-26-2015, 07:15 PM
#53
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 48
I totally agree with you; however, in current corporate world, people don't care about leaving legacy behind, they care about bonuses, and golden parachutes. They bring nothing with them and leave with millions. Till the corporate rules will require officers to invest their own money when they take over corporate managment resposiblilites, these people will never care about legacy of the business they run; and for certain, they don't care about employees, because we are just numbers in the books, a mere resource, just like the planes. The only motivation for these people is money and fame, and the only way we can get them to perform is if they have thier own skin in the game. I'm not talking about stock option or stock award, I'm talking about a real hard cash personal investment of their own money into the company they taking over, with freezes for 5 years. This is the only motivation for them.
09-27-2015, 08:38 AM
#54
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: next to chronic complainers...
Posts: 364
Why there are so few exceptional leaders in armed forces and so many average?
Why so many people have jobs, and just few true careers?
Why so few students are above average and majority just attend colleges for final degree?
Some CEOs do great job in leading the corporations, leaving legacy behind and then cash in on it for the rest of their lives by giving speeches at $100K per hour, and some just like to get their options and move on.
Time will show, what kind of leader is Oscar, I hope he's a minority exceptional leader.
If in the next few months, we'll see a major shake down in upper and medium management, there's hope, if not, he's just another CEO. I have seen and experienced it before; the good and bad.
09-27-2015, 10:38 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 48
Why, some people, are so meticulous about everything they do in life, and majority are just getting by? Why Steve Jobs was so crazy about design and feel of his products, and Bill Gates did not?
Why there are so few exceptional leaders in armed forces and so many average?
Why so many people have jobs, and just few true careers?
Why so few students are above average and majority just attend colleges for final degree?
Some CEOs do great job in leading the corporations, leaving legacy behind and then cash in on it for the rest of their lives by giving speeches at $100K per hour, and some just like to get their options and move on.
Time will show, what kind of leader is Oscar, I hope he's a minority exceptional leader.
If in the next few months, we'll see a major shake down in upper and medium management, there's hope, if not, he's just another CEO. I have seen and experienced it before; the good and bad.
Why there are so few exceptional leaders in armed forces and so many average?
Why so many people have jobs, and just few true careers?
Why so few students are above average and majority just attend colleges for final degree?
Some CEOs do great job in leading the corporations, leaving legacy behind and then cash in on it for the rest of their lives by giving speeches at $100K per hour, and some just like to get their options and move on.
Time will show, what kind of leader is Oscar, I hope he's a minority exceptional leader.
If in the next few months, we'll see a major shake down in upper and medium management, there's hope, if not, he's just another CEO. I have seen and experienced it before; the good and bad.
09-27-2015, 11:16 AM
#56
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
Despite the wishes for an individual a little more "cuddly," Oscar Munoz still has to position United to compete...compete with an industry leader (Delta) that is innovative, quick, can turn on a dime, largely outsources most above/below wing functions (hubs are the exception) and has for nearly 25 years, and is essentially non-union (with the exception of the pilots).
When American and Southwest are thrown into the mix, it is a very tall order...compounded by the perception that there are still a bunch of old "dinosaurs" at United who still think it's the 1950's/60's...changing to be sure, but very, very slllooowwwllly. A very tall order, indeed.
I wish Oscar Munoz and everybody the very best...truly.
When American and Southwest are thrown into the mix, it is a very tall order...compounded by the perception that there are still a bunch of old "dinosaurs" at United who still think it's the 1950's/60's...changing to be sure, but very, very slllooowwwllly. A very tall order, indeed.
I wish Oscar Munoz and everybody the very best...truly.
09-27-2015, 05:27 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
"Why Steve Jobs was so crazy about design and feel of his products, and Bill Gates did not?"
Just the facts please!
Apple built and builds computers and devices (hardware) with operating systems. Until just a few years ago (many failures chasing Apple hardware) Microsoft primarily builds operating systems and is the number one office system used throughout the world.
Yes the Microsoft surface is getting good reviews in it's third version and Windows 10 is finally as good as Windows 7.
Which one is better?
I own Apple products after getting fed up with Windows about ten years ago.
Typing on my 2015 Macbook (4th one I've owned).
Just the facts please!
Apple built and builds computers and devices (hardware) with operating systems. Until just a few years ago (many failures chasing Apple hardware) Microsoft primarily builds operating systems and is the number one office system used throughout the world.
Yes the Microsoft surface is getting good reviews in it's third version and Windows 10 is finally as good as Windows 7.
Which one is better?
I own Apple products after getting fed up with Windows about ten years ago.
Typing on my 2015 Macbook (4th one I've owned).
09-27-2015, 07:02 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,039
Nothing at all wrong with the company asking, but IMHO, we'd be crazy to even consider something that is not well above the rates in the TAs that are out there. I'd personally rather they focus their energy on getting the FAs and Mechs a contract first. If Oscar is serious about righting the ship, I think that is step one. Our contract is ammendable soon, we'll have our time to see if he's serious about labor peace.
09-27-2015, 07:17 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
It doesn't make any sense. If he wants pilot group stability so he can focus on other things, why not just come right out and say "I've directed my negotiators to have a new contract in place by the 1/1/16 amenable date” and then agree to a pattern-bargaining leading contract along with clear instructions to achieve full compliance of all UPA2 items right away. Done and behind him for four years so he can turn his attention to other issues. Easy. Just do it. You're the CEO. Instead it's more rope-a-dope with those stupid pilots. Just say no.
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