Smisek was not the problem
09-19-2015, 01:12 PM
#21
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
Remember Ratt? 'Round and 'Round.....
Sleeves I clearly remember a long layover in SFO in early April of 2010. I was out to dinner with two other crews, and we had all known each other for a long time. The topic of conversation that night was the news that had broken earlier in the day. The news was that UAL was in deep merger negotiations with USAirways. So much for any chance of a CAL merger being revived we figured. Obviously, Glen was serious about moving on. Given all of the previous work that had been done on a USair deal, we figured this was going to happen fast. Remember, this is already pushing two years since DAL/NWA.
That weekend, Glen was tending to his horses on his Santa Fe ranch when Jeff called. He begged him not to marry the "ugly girl." Tilton reversed course, and the rest was history.
Evidently, your management team was not comfortable with CAL and AAL being the last two legacy carriers standing alone. With major overlaps in NY, Latin / South America, and two large hubs close together in Texas, that seems understandable.
If you would have rather gone down that road, then just say so. I'm sure you would have been thrilled with APA.
Sleeves I clearly remember a long layover in SFO in early April of 2010. I was out to dinner with two other crews, and we had all known each other for a long time. The topic of conversation that night was the news that had broken earlier in the day. The news was that UAL was in deep merger negotiations with USAirways. So much for any chance of a CAL merger being revived we figured. Obviously, Glen was serious about moving on. Given all of the previous work that had been done on a USair deal, we figured this was going to happen fast. Remember, this is already pushing two years since DAL/NWA.
That weekend, Glen was tending to his horses on his Santa Fe ranch when Jeff called. He begged him not to marry the "ugly girl." Tilton reversed course, and the rest was history.
Evidently, your management team was not comfortable with CAL and AAL being the last two legacy carriers standing alone. With major overlaps in NY, Latin / South America, and two large hubs close together in Texas, that seems understandable.
If you would have rather gone down that road, then just say so. I'm sure you would have been thrilled with APA.
Funny, the insiders in the Wall Street Journal had a different take altogether on that US AIR deal.
IF there is any truth to your story, it is only because Smisek knew the CAL mgt would bail rather than do it and this was his only chance to sit in the big chair. Shows the kind of guy he is.
Larry Kellner told me personally he refused to do the deal because it was not a good deal and offered his resignation.
I saw him two years later and he said he was glad he left, but felt bad for the friends he left behind.
It's water under the bridge now anyway- some, like divorced wives can't let go. They are too fat and ugly to get picked up.
09-19-2015, 07:09 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,039
LOL! you were in the room for that conversation with Glenn?
Funny, the insiders in the Wall Street Journal had a different take altogether on that US AIR deal.
IF there is any truth to your story, it is only because Smisek knew the CAL mgt would bail rather than do it and this was his only chance to sit in the big chair. Shows the kind of guy he is.
Larry Kellner told me personally he refused to do the deal because it was not a good deal and offered his resignation.
I saw him two years later and he said he was glad he left, but felt bad for the friends he left behind.
It's water under the bridge now anyway- some, like divorced wives can't let go. They are too fat and ugly to get picked up.
Funny, the insiders in the Wall Street Journal had a different take altogether on that US AIR deal.
IF there is any truth to your story, it is only because Smisek knew the CAL mgt would bail rather than do it and this was his only chance to sit in the big chair. Shows the kind of guy he is.
Larry Kellner told me personally he refused to do the deal because it was not a good deal and offered his resignation.
I saw him two years later and he said he was glad he left, but felt bad for the friends he left behind.
It's water under the bridge now anyway- some, like divorced wives can't let go. They are too fat and ugly to get picked up.
Personally I don't believe squat that a suit tells me. If it's not painted in our colors on our ramp, or listed in our contract, I tend to take everything they say with a grain of salt.
Over the last 20+ yrs I've heard lots of suits say lots of things and most have been BS. It carries about as much weight as a TK rumor.
09-19-2015, 07:12 PM
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
LOL! you were in the room for that conversation with Glenn?
Funny, the insiders in the Wall Street Journal had a different take altogether on that US AIR deal.
IF there is any truth to your story, it is only because Smisek knew the CAL mgt would bail rather than do it and this was his only chance to sit in the big chair. Shows the kind of guy he is.
Larry Kellner told me personally he refused to do the deal because it was not a good deal and offered his resignation.
I saw him two years later and he said he was glad he left, but felt bad for the friends he left behind.
It's water under the bridge now anyway- some, like divorced wives can't let go. They are too fat and ugly to get picked up.
Funny, the insiders in the Wall Street Journal had a different take altogether on that US AIR deal.
IF there is any truth to your story, it is only because Smisek knew the CAL mgt would bail rather than do it and this was his only chance to sit in the big chair. Shows the kind of guy he is.
Larry Kellner told me personally he refused to do the deal because it was not a good deal and offered his resignation.
I saw him two years later and he said he was glad he left, but felt bad for the friends he left behind.
It's water under the bridge now anyway- some, like divorced wives can't let go. They are too fat and ugly to get picked up.
Would you care to give reference to the Wall Street Journal insider article you referenced?
09-19-2015, 07:19 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 303
If Kellmer actually told you that he was lying. More like he knew he couldn't manage a company the size of a United then adding CAL to it would have overwhelmed him. The only people that thought merging CAL into United were the money people of both airlines. Tilton was happy to let JS run the merged company because of CAL's rough-shot treatment of employees. Something Tilton was unable to accomplish at UAL.
Would you care to give reference to the Wall Street Journal insider article you referenced?
Would you care to give reference to the Wall Street Journal insider article you referenced?
And to caveat your bogus caveat...you have no idea what LK thought or didn't think.
09-19-2015, 07:25 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,085
LOL! you were in the room for that conversation with Glenn?
Funny, the insiders in the Wall Street Journal had a different take altogether on that US AIR deal.
IF there is any truth to your story, it is only because Smisek knew the CAL mgt would bail rather than do it and this was his only chance to sit in the big chair. Shows the kind of guy he is.
Larry Kellner told me personally he refused to do the deal because it was not a good deal and offered his resignation.
I saw him two years later and he said he was glad he left, but felt bad for the friends he left behind.
It's water under the bridge now anyway- some, like divorced wives can't let go. They are too fat and ugly to get picked up.
Funny, the insiders in the Wall Street Journal had a different take altogether on that US AIR deal.
IF there is any truth to your story, it is only because Smisek knew the CAL mgt would bail rather than do it and this was his only chance to sit in the big chair. Shows the kind of guy he is.
Larry Kellner told me personally he refused to do the deal because it was not a good deal and offered his resignation.
I saw him two years later and he said he was glad he left, but felt bad for the friends he left behind.
It's water under the bridge now anyway- some, like divorced wives can't let go. They are too fat and ugly to get picked up.
We can argue how we got here all day. You are right, it is water under the bridge now. What is undeniable though is that since the merger, UAL Management has made decisions that have alienated customers in ways that NEITHER company did before the merger. Both CAL and UAL, despite their respective Chapter 11 events, did find ways to take care of their best customers. Since the merger, UAL has left many of them feeling alienated. I believe our now departed CFO was even quoted as calling them "over entitled." The result is predictable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/bu...eep-climb.html
09-19-2015, 07:26 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,039
CEOs come and go. Yet the United Airlines name lives on. CAL is as dead as PAA, EAL, TWA etc etc. Let's try to be "United". Wear your pin, PSIS on the SCABs, and work towards flying the contract and look to be a unified group as openers will be here before we know it.
09-20-2015, 04:42 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 303
Neither do you nor does it matter. "LK" as you call him was gone before the MAD.
CEOs come and go. Yet the United Airlines name lives on. CAL is as dead as PAA, EAL, TWA etc etc. Let's try to be "United". Wear your pin, PSIS on the SCABs, and work towards flying the contract and look to be a unified group as openers will be here before we know it.
CEOs come and go. Yet the United Airlines name lives on. CAL is as dead as PAA, EAL, TWA etc etc. Let's try to be "United". Wear your pin, PSIS on the SCABs, and work towards flying the contract and look to be a unified group as openers will be here before we know it.
09-20-2015, 06:42 PM
#28
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
Don't have to know what Kellmer thought, he cut and ran leaving JS to create the biggest failure of an airline merger since FL created CAL/EAL merger. GUAFB GB or Kellmer are no better than the clowns we had running UAL over that period and in many ways worst.
09-24-2015, 06:47 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
Yes we had shrunk post 9/11. Went through a nasty BK and emerged more financially sound. Just like CAL did twice. What's your point? The author is making some true statements that the management team was in over their heads in dealing with a combined company more than twice the size that they'd ever operated and were not prepared to handle it.
We'll quickly adopt the ELB United (S-UA) is already using.
I don't necessarily think Management was in over their heads as much as I think they were stubborn in wanting to ONLY do things Continental's way when much of S-CO's stuff wasn't "UP TO Snuff" for the operation we're running. (and it's still not!)
Last edited by strfyr51; 09-24-2015 at 06:51 AM. Reason: clean up text
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