jsled

I'm there dude! Coming over next month. 170 KIAS....Damn. That's one hot tricycle!!

ugleeual

What I'm saying is that you should plan on using Flaps 25 and ABs unless you have a valid reason (runway length, environmentals, etc.)… if you don't have a valid reason and the shiza hits the fan your going to be defending why not.

Regularguy

uglee

Let's see, on a normal 25 flaps landing they require more runway to stop because of the faster speed. Advantages to 25 (less flaps)? More likely to hit tail skid, less fuel use, less noise, better initial go-around performance, if engine quits on short final better performance (now we can start all the what ifs).

The advantage to more flaps is always a slower airspeed and less kinetic energy to dissipate during roll-out and a lower body angle and view during low visibility approaches (but we don't teach that any due to auto-land).

We get paid to read, practice and apply what we are taught by the FM, FOM and the manufacturer's directions. And yes we are culpable for our decisions, it's what we do.

Justdoinmyjob

You guys do realize that the difference in airspeed between flaps 25 and 30 is only a few knots. Landing distance is also negligible. I know different airlines operate the same type of airplane differently, but those differences are not dangerous, just different. Case in point, at Delta we operate the 757/767 at flaps 25 and AB 2/3 on a regular basis. Tail bumps, while rare, happen on takeoff and not landing. I've flown the plane for the last 9 years, almost exclusively F25, AB3, idle reverse. Never got close to bumping the tail. The only exception is the 757-300. That is an F30 plane. Otherwise, just fly it like the 767-300 and all is OK.

Anyway, the differences in operating procedures isn't dangerous, it's just different. But, YMMV.

Regularguy

Just:

"the differences in operating procedures isn't dangerous,"

Just so you know there are two things here:

1. No one said it was dangerous.
2. As professional pilots if it's dangerous we don't do it.

simple

CousinEddie

Ehhhh. OK. Yeah, whatever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Accident: Delta B752 at Atlanta on Mar 7th 2013, tail strike on landing

By Simon Hradecky, created Monday, Feb 3rd 2014 23:06Z, last updated Thursday, Feb 27th 2014 12:00Z
A Delta Airlines Boeing 757-200, registration N698DL performing flight DL-1693 from Santa Ana,CA to Atlanta,GA (USA) with 142 passengers and 6 crew, was on approach to Atlanta's runway 28 at 19:21L (00:21Z Mar 8th), clear skies, visibility 10km or more. The aircraft's Vref was computed at 129 KIAS at flaps 25, and the aircraft was flown at Vref. Upon landing the first officer, pilot monitoring, announced "speedbrakes not activated", the captain, pilot flying, felt the aircraft was floating and attempted to maintain landing attitude. The speed decayed to 115 KIAS, the pitch attitude increased to 11 degrees and the tail made contact with the runway. The aircraft subsequently rolled out without further incident and taxied to the gate, where ground personnel informed the crew about damage to the tail of the aircraft.

The accident became known through a brief factual report released by the NTSB in 2014.

The NTSB reported the aircraft received substantial damage to the aft pressurization dome, which buckled, as well as several stringers, there was also an 8 feet long scrape on the lower aft fuselage.

According to the flight data recorder the aircraft made an initial touchdown followed by a brief gear squat switch deactivation indicative of a slight bounce or light touchdown, the speedbrakes were then manually deployed.

On Feb 27th 2014 the NTSB released their brief final report concluding the probable cause of the accident was:

the pilot's failure to maintain correct airspeed and pitch attitude at touchdown

ugleeual

Apparently the pilot flying needs more practice...

Justdoinmyjob

That was pilot error, and not caused by the flap setting. I didn't say they never happen, though. Fly correctly, never bump the tail.

Justdoinmyjob

Pretty sure that one or two posters said anything less than F30 was dangerous. But whatever. I got better things to do than go back looking. Was just curious how things were going over there. Have several friends there who aren't too happy.

Shrek

Hopefully they will quit if they are senior to me