XHooker

Not true. While PBS definitely had a deleterious effect on our staffing, we had more pilots on property the year after its implementation (2007) than the year it was implemented (2006) or prior year (2005). While I believe we had over 5,000 pilots at one point, I don't believe we ever got close to 6K. Check the MIT Airline Database to see for yourself.

I don't want to speak in absolutes here because it was a long time ago and I don't think I heard a thing about it until after the fact, so I really didn't pay much attention to the details since it was already in the past. However, I was a (very) low level volunteer and had slightly more access to info and the post-mortem over the issue than a typical line pilot. What I remember is there was zero domestic component and possibly not even an Atlantic component to the JV flying and it was targeted to ANA. I find it hard to believe DZ thought he had that much influence and recall being told it was NC Chair MF who presented it and was replaced soon after its rejection. We had WB orders in the 787 and the 767 fleet had largely replaced the DC-10 fleet which had been parked almost immediately after 9/11, though admittedly, we lacked the number of long haul airframes we wanted. I don't know what finally drove the merger, but it was rejected in 2008, the year all of this was going on.

Snarge

baseball... you are one notch above the ego centric legacy cal no pin wearing pilot who has bought into the me me me mindset that management used IACP and CAL-ALPA for... a young jedi like yourself has jedi master potential....

Knotcher

Well congratulations, because it seems you got the arrogant legacy ual brain surgeon I'm god's gift to aviation routine masterfully perfected.

AllenAllert

Jealously is a terrible thing, especially when you can't hide it.

UAL T38 Phlyer

I always liked Jealousy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5gAkna3jI

baseball

Well, That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. While I do wear my ALPA pin, I have seen an up-tick in L CAL pilots who are now throwing them in the trash after years and years of proudly wearing them. This entire process and absolutely decimated any feelings of goodwill, and unity that were on the horizon for us. It's people like you, a young padoin learner who has yet to master the ways of the force who needs a lesson. Perhaps you should ponder Master Yoda: Fear is the path to the dark side, Fear leads to anger, and anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering.

Clearly you are suffering from the brain surgeon mindset with your "I am the gift to commercial aviation" mindset. The "all about me" syndrome is something for sure CAL never invented. We were kicked around by Debbie McCoy and Fred Abbot way too long to buy into your garbage. Meanwhile, while you're in your surgical suite....... You get it don't you? Probably not.

The pin means absolutely nothing if "fair and equitable" aren't really taken seriously by all players. You got yours right. Attaaaa-baby!

baseball

The JV LOA was a blank check. Therefore, you had to ask yourself, what would/could management do with a blank check. Management had already commented on the absolutely perfect storm that L UAL had created by giving away the B737 domestic flying. That flying is low yield and for the most point break even. Therefore management wanted to do it cheaper and feed international routes that charged more.

Further, management commented that they liked the "wet lease" program that L UAL started with Aer Lingus. Management was exploring ways to lower the cost of labor across trans-atlantic and other long haul routes.

Due to the lack of replacement of the DC10 fleet, with only 22 actual B777 airframes on property management decided to expand code-sharing arrangements and other such formulary agreements to bring in revenue without actually spending money. It was indeed a perfect storm, and combined with PBS and the abolishment of the 10 percent reserve component would have likely reduced pilot ranks by another 300 pilots with attrition. So, the 147, when they came back would have been on reserve for another 5 years or so (excluding age 65 effects). It would have been awful. 2 percent pay raise in exchange for career stagnation.

Management wanted to break the CAL pilots scope clause. It was a clearly understood goal. It was their top priority in 2005-6-7-8. By 2009 they gave up and attacked it from a different angle. This is what pushed the merger forward. So, the life boats that were deployed to save L UAL, really did come from CAL pilots. We spent allot of blood and treasure defending something that they (L UAL) were unable to defend for themselves, only to really have it stripped from us by our own union via a merged seniority list. This is probably another way of looking at the issue, but it is one that does have merit and judging by all those "on the outside of the window-looking in comments I hear", it's probably one that it starting to resonate with CAL pilots. Like it or not, I can't control that, but it's how people feel, and really, if ALPA cared about "unity" it would have taken seriously their mandate for fair and equitable. This is simply the perception (and the reality) of many a former CAL pilot. Go ahead, and tear into it... But, you aren't going to change bad and ugly into happy and lollypops with a few adjectives and adverbs and pounding on your keyboard. Scalpel.....Doctor...Doctor.....lets make that incision from anus to appetite.

Airhoss

September will be 18 years on the property for me. Never been furloughed, that is 18 years on the property with no breaks. I am currently sitting at about the 7300ish level in seniority.

In the past I've been a captain, check airmen, line holding wide body F/O, ETC ETC...A guy who was hired on the same day that I was at CAL is about 3,000 ish numbers senior to me.

So I'll ask you this question BB. What exactly is your beef? How exactly did you get skrewed? All the rationalization in the world can't fix what's happened to me, so I just got over it. But I do have to say that listening to an over entitled, whiny child such as yourself, cry and complain and stomp his feet over and over gets tiresome.

If you really hate it here due to the horrible perceived injustice that you feel you've suffered . Please by all means leave. There are lots of airlines hiring at the moment. If you are going to stay here learn to deal with your situation. It's not that hard and all of your whining, foot stomping and pouting is not going to fix a thing.

jsled

^^^^^^^^^^

F'n A! Where is the like button?

CousinEddie

Well said Hoss. As a fellow L-UAL 1997 hire at the 18 year mark, I have asked that same question several times. I never get an answer.

When I look at L-CAL pilots around our DOH and see how far ahead of us on the list they are I just don't get bent about it. They went to work for a twice bankrupt airline that was by default slimmed down and better fit to handle the post 9-11 world. L-UAL simply hadn't been through the process yet to deal with it. That turned out bad for us post 2001, and good for our counterparts at L-CAL in terms of upward mobility. That's life. You and I accepted it and moved on. I chuckle at all this God's gift to aviation and brain surgeon talk. Who are the ones acting entitled here?