BMEP100

So if you are not okay with that, I'm guessing you are not a United line pilot. OR, during your IOE domestic flights the LCA's never took a pee break.

Short Bus Drive

I AM a UAL line pilot.
But I see your point of a pee break...
(I don't remember back as far as domestic OE)...

Omar 111

Hey Motch,

Delta ex interntional guy here. At Delta, everybody shows up at briefing, and usually the two FO's decide who's flying considering currency, future sched, reserve status, etc. If it doesn't matter (both current, regular line holders, etc) it's a coin flip. If one FO is being a jerk over who gets the leg, the Capt has the final say.

Omar

baseball

A 737 Line check airman can take a pee break from IAH to EWR. Just get a FA to babysit.

A 777 check airman can also do the same thing. PEE breaks are not a factor.

baseball

Seems interesting to me.

We had some problems doing this a few years back.


1. IRO/relief pilot was only required to bring certain items, IE no flight kit. So the IRO packed as an IRO to limit crap in the cockpit. Also, some IRO pairings were gone for 5 to 8 days and they flew with different crews each leg, so it was nearly impossible to do a coin flip on each leg. The Asia 767-400 trips come to mind.

2. We only flew the IRO on one leg out and then deadheaded him/her back to "save money" and FAA flight time, this reduced the 777 requirement in IAH by 9 FO's. This was a flight ops cost savings measure.


Perhaps we could change things now, but it would abrogate seniority. We all have IPADS and no one has a flight kit any more. I really don't want the CA deciding who gets the leg. I think we have bidding and seniority rights and our seniority should give us something. However, I have always offered a landing if I was good or if there were dinner and/or beers on the table for a landing. Heck I've given up landings just for the heck of it. But rarely would I give up a landing to a jerk or someone who didn't at least ask. I think if you ask, you usually receive. So, be cool and offer up a beer or a good cup of coffee, and you can have all the landings you want.

Dave Fitzgerald

Remember, accidents are one thing, but the highest category for violations/deviations and busted clearances happen on IOE. LCA's hang it out there every leg.

Ensuring a qualified person up front might not be such a bad thing.

baseball

I agree.

I only hope that we can still maintain the integrity of our seniority system.

I see indefinite IOE occurring over the next 20 years, so lots of work for them.

Big picture, scheduling needs to buy the FO's trip (FBO). That seat goes into open time for pick up by another line holder (qualified FO). The FBO'd line holder who may or may not want to be involved in an IOE trip is then free to pick up another trip, or go out and play golf. Everyone wins. Seniority is upheld and the flying seat the pilot bid for is bought fair and square. He can then go out and try and find another trip with a landing/flying seat.

Mandating that the FO go sit in the back just because a check airman was giving IOE really isn't fair to the FO who bid for the trip with the expectation of flying. The company is real big in saying bid what you want, and don't bid what you don't want.

Shrek

Agree 100%

BMEP100

Interesting coincidence; The FOM revision that came out today changes the term augmented Pilot or IRO to "relief pilot".

pilot64golfer

Yes. Relief pilot is a better description. IRO traditionally was a pilot that was not qualified to takeoff or land, and only for inflight relief. They also had to be FE qualified because they relieved the FE. These were used on the old 747s and DC-10s. So we called them IRO, but they are really just FOs that are not assigned to sit in the right seat on takeoff or landing, even though they are qualified.