SpecialTracking

Shaft,

Notice Ham isn't smiling sitting beside that ...

cadetdrivr

Note that only one of the guys actually knows what year he was born.

(Just kidding. They both know, but only one is not a scab.)

pilot64golfer

Ham lived to be 102.

89Pistons

I thought 8-D-1-d trumped but guess I was wrong. Maybe wishful thinking on my part as I'm going to training on a plane I thought I'd be able to bid off of before early 2017. From the looks of some of the past few awards it looked as if the company was interpreting it that way but I guess they relaxed freezes for a few instead.

So how did we get this big change? I was out on loa during the contract road shows. Was this in lCals contract or is this new to both groups? Can't imagine a change that big got slipped in.

pilot64golfer

Three situations.

8-D-1) New hire or bidding up in status. <-- What most of us do.
8-D-2) Bidding down or same status.
8-D-3) Bidding "new" BES that didn't exist before.

You can bid up every month if you want. As long as you go up in paybands. Once you bid laterally or downbid, you aren't going anywhere (except Captain on same airplane) for 2 years.

This is different that the old UAL contract where we could always bid Captain no matter what freezes if you were an FO. Also everyone could bid a new equipment base.

ron kent

The stewardess was his crew meal.

steve0617

Then why did my wife, who returned from F/O furlough off Fifi in ORD and chose the Guppy in EWR last February (and went through full training), who then lateraled to LAX over the summer, was then on this snapshot for the 777 in SFO?

There was no freeze for her, unless the snapshot lied and she was going to be denied it on the final award. The lateral did not seem to have any impact on her being able to bid upwards long before two years of her Guppy major training.

OR

Am I reading it wrong what you mean by lateral? I'm assuming you mean a simple base change, but are you referring to seat change? I totally agree, in our situation, if she wanted to lateral back from the Guppy to Fifi, she would be denied as she's frozen on a lateral of the same pay banded seat until two years after the training she had earlier this year.

Scott Stoops

A lateral is the same as a base change. NO freeze incurred and you can do that whenever you can hold a lateral bid

The only time the 2 year freeze applies is when bidding a different aircraft in the same pay band or down in payband or seat, i.e. 737 to Airbus or Cap to F/O. She should absolutely be able to bid up in pay band when she can hold it. FWIW, the final award is out, and I suspect her name is on it.

As a for instance, I bid 747 f/o fall 2013, trained Feb, bid SFO 737 Cap and was awarded in Oct, and just took a lateral to ORD 737 Cap. My only freeze would be if I wanted to go back to F/O or to 320 Cap. If I was somehow miraculously able to bid and hold widebody Cap in the next 2 years, I'd be able to do that with no restrictions.

I believe that's the way the new contract works anyway. Very different from the LUAL way, and a dramatic improvement IMHO.

Scott

SurfnFlyer

I'm reading folks use "lateral" two ways:
1) Move bases in the same equipment (EWR 756 to DCA 756)
2) Transition aircraft in the same pay band (Fifi to Guppy)

True or False: Case 1) would not incur any kind of freeze and Case 2) would incur a bidding freeze.

cadetdrivr

I think folks are using "lateral" in two different ways and causing some confusion.

1) "Lateral" in same aircraft seat to a different base = OK (You can do it as many times as you want---in fact, go nuts.)

2) "Lateral" to same position (CA/FA) within the same category [pay band]; example: 777 FO to 747 FO = NOT PERMITTED until freeze expires

Of course, the company can waive the freeze in #2 above at their discretion and has recently permitted some 320 pilots to bid the 737 (and the opposite) based on the staffing needs of the company.