Andy

Correct if I'm wrong (I'm wrong enough to put in this disclaimer), but I thought that the bidding freeze only applied if you were bidding for same/lower pay band.

I thought that if you bid for a higher pay band aircraft, there's no bid freeze.

sleeves

I don't think IAH has to worry till the fall, I read that somewhere recently. Of coarse that was last week so??

Birddog

IAH 737 has nothing to worry about.

pilot64golfer

There are THREE types of freezes.

8-D-1 Equipment Training Freezes
8-D-2 Bidding Freeze
8-D-3 New Equipment Type Freeze

A freeze in ANY ONE of these can stop you from getting an award.

The ONLY one of these freezes that can be canceled by bidding a higher category are 8-D-1 Equipment Training Freezes.

So if you bid a new base (i.e. new to EVERYONE) not just to you, then you are stuck in that seat.

If you bid "laterally" (i.e. don't move up or down in position) that's an 8-D-2 Bidding Freeze. So if you go from Airbus to Guppy FO you can't then bid right out to 756 just because its a higher status.

This is different from the old CBA, because this includes upgrading to Captain. You used to ALWAYS be able to move up to Captain, but not anymore, unless it is in the same equipment you are in (if you are on a bidding or new equipment freeze). So lets say you're a 777 FO and you decide to bid the 787 FO. You now get a 8-D-2 Bidding Freeze. Then a 737 Captain bid opens up and you want to bid it. Well sorry, because you CAN'T because of the freeze.

So be VERY CAREFUL when bidding to the same category of aircraft, because you are going to be there for a few years.

89Pistons

I don't think that's right. I've read those sections and I interpret that differently. And from the looks of some of the awards it seems as if your interpretation is a little off.

pilot64golfer

I just cut and pasted the entire section here. Please let me know where specifically it contradicts what I said. This is different from the old contract, so I don't know how much of this was LCAL or just new.

We are all better off when we understand things like this so next round we can get them improved.

All bids are 1 of 3 things. You are either upgrading into something or a new hire so the 1st one applies. You are bidding into something of the same or lower status (i.e. Capt to FO or 777 FO to 747 FO) or you are bidding a new equipment base (Company just opened 787 in ORD for everyone to bid).

8-D Eligibility to be Awarded Vacancies

A Pilot's eligibility to be awarded vacancies shall be subject to the following conditions:

8-D-1 Equipment Training Freeze

8-D-1-a When a Pilot enters training for a vacancy award, he may be ineligible to be awarded another vacancy for twenty-four (24) months if the number of training days (excluding days off) for the training he has entered is thirteen (13) days or greater, or for twelve (12) months if the training he has entered is less than thirteen (13) days. There shall be no restriction on his eligibility to be awarded another vacancy if training is not required.
8-D-1-b An Equipment training freeze shall also apply to a Pilot who requires training upon being hired as a Pilot or upon being recalled from furlough.
8-D-1-c An Equipment training freeze shall begin the first day a Pilot starts training, and shall apply to any vacancy bulletin whose closing date falls within the duration of the freeze.
8-D-1-d An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot in a lower–numbered Equipment/pay band from being awarded a vacancy in a higher-numbered Equipment/pay band, pursuant to the bands described below:
1) 321/320/319FO, 737FO
2) 767/757FO
3) 747FO, 777FO, 787FO, 350FO
4) 321/320/319CA, 737CA
5) 767/757CA
6) 747CA, 777CA, 787CA, 350CA
8-D-1-e An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot from bidding to a “new” Category (a Category shall be considered “new” for all vacancies with advertised effectivedates within six (6) months of the advertised effective date of the first vacancies bid in that new Category).

8-D-2 Bidding Freeze

8-D-2-a When a Pilot is awarded an assignment through vacancy bidding and such award does not move him from a lower-numbered band to a higher-numbered band in accordance with Section 8-D-1-d, he may be ineligible to be awarded any other vacancy for twenty-four (24) months. However, a Pilot shall be eligible to be awarded a vacancy for a “lateral” award (i.e., change in Base only; present Equipment and Status remain the same) without incurring an additional bidding freeze.
8-D-2-b A bidding freeze shall begin the first day a Pilot starts training or, if training is not required, on the date of his Activation, and shall apply to any vacancy bid whose closing date falls within the duration of the freeze.
8-D-2-c A bidding freeze shall not restrict a Pilot from bidding for a Captain vacancy in his current Equipment type, nor from bidding to a new Base (a Base shall be considered “new” for vacancies with effective dates within six (6) months of the effective date of the first vacancy bulletin for that new Base).

8-D-3 New Equipment Type Freeze

8-D-3-a When a Pilot receives an award through vacancy bidding to a “new” Equipment type as defined in Section 8-C-7, he shall be ineligible to be awarded any other vacancy until the “new” Equipment type has completed twenty-four (24) months of revenue service.
8-D-3-b The award restriction set forth in Section 8-D-3-a shall also apply to a Pilot who receives an award to a “new” Equipment type upon being hired as a Pilot or upon being recalled from furlough.
8-D-3-c A new Equipment type freeze shall begin the first day a Pilot starts training, and shall apply to any vacancy bid whose closing date falls within the duration of the freeze.
8-D-3-d A new Equipment type freeze shall not restrict a Pilot from being awarded a Captain vacancy if he has never held a Captain position before.
8-D-4 Any previously existing Equipment training freeze, bidding freeze, or new Equipment type freeze shall expire when a Pilot is advanced to a subsequent vacancy bid award, and only the freeze applicable to the new award, if any, shall apply. However, freezes shall not expire if the award is a lateral bid award. A Pilot under a freeze may be awarded an unlimited number of lateral bid awards except he shall receive no new paid move nor travel time entitlement as a result of such an award.
8-D-5 The Company, after consultation with the SSC, may waive any of the freezes outlined in Section 8-D for any specific vacancy bulletin.

SpecialTracking

Pilot64,

Imo you are correct. Riddle me this. If Ham Lee is a ORD 737 fo and receives a 737 iah fo vacancy bid, that is considered a bidding freeze because he didn't move up? IOW, are the two sentences in 8d2a exclusive or does it imply your first lateral initiates a 24 mo freeze and the other laterals are free?

Lerxst

So, just taking a lateral incurs a freeze? On a separate note, if the Effective date of this bid is April, does that mean one can be advanced anytime between now and then or does one expect to be staffed in the new position beginning in April (no training req'd, strictly a lateral)? Trying to understand the difference between Activation vs. Effective dates.

cadetdrivr

Laterals are free.

Bigger riddle for those playing the home game, and yes, this should be a mandatory interview question:

Who was Ham Lee?

SpecialTracking

Thx. Just as important as who is Ham Lee, is why is his headset still offered to our omc's?

Btw, where is his picture? Hiding with Leon Cuddeback's?