socalflyboy

You mean like jaykris...employee # what?

XHooker

I think your point is that merger protection is why CAL pilots voted ALPA back in. In my case and the case of many others, that is true, but there were a variety of reasons heard. I never disputed your assertion about merger policy being a factor, just that it wasn't the only factor. What I am taking issue with are your obviously false comments about the number of scabs at CAL in 2001, the quality of Contract '97, the timing of negotiations for Contract '02 and their importance in ALPA being brought back to CAL (which contradicts your own assertion about ALPA being brought back for merger protection) and your willingness to take the word of "a trusted forum contributor" as gospel when they say what you want to hear.

Equinox

my 02 cents worth, which is nothing.
Our true scabs are the alpa national chairmen who have signed contracts condemning over 60 percent of our domestic pilots to long-term, d-scale wages and conditions. The lawyers and "managers" have surely screwed us, but not as shamefully as our own "union" leadership.

I've served on an MEC, and run two strike centers, so I have a right to my opinion, which is all it is!!

XHooker

The reason was you presented the number of scabs at CAL as a number based on knowledge, not a generality based on assumptions like the rest of the numbers in your post.

And that's relevant because...?

Don't know why you made the rewrite history comment, but the narrative has been done by those who know the details better than I. Long story short: There was no union from the strike until the early 90's when the pilots formed the IACP. Excluding the scabs would have made certification of a union impossible.

Flyguppy

Buh-bye scabs and scab coddlers alike.

baseball

Are they in hiding or something? Why do they need to be discovered? Isn't there a list?

I think it's a pretty overt and unambiguous thing to identify the scabs. Has nothing to do with a tie tac.

baseball

That is good info and an opinion based on real experiences. My biggest beef isn't the scabs who crossed an ALPA picket line it is with ALPA for allowing it to happen, not once, but twice (CAL and UAL). Further, I am disappointed with how ALPA has molly-coddled the regional industry, acting as a catalyst to the erosion of mainline flying, mainline growth, and mainline revenue which in turn lowers pilots career expectations and their earning potential.

Now, ALPA wants to fight Norweign Air and prevent them from taking our routes. Where was all their p$$$ and vinegar when regionals were stealing our flying? I really would like ALPA to grow a set and be consistent in their standards and in their career goals.

The reason my biggest beef isn't with the scabs is because you can't prevent or legislate stupidity or greed. But, our union should be strong enough to prevent strike breakers from doing their dirty deeds. I am paying the union dues money for this, so I sort of expect ALPA to be policing this garbage and preventing it from happening in the first place. I don't like scabs at all, but I really don't like weakness because it invites attacks both internally and externally. If we want the profession to be strong, we need a strong union that doesn't cater to special interests and I am not convinced that ALPA isn't still catering to the regionals, which in my opinion has continually morphed into something bigger than most of our CBA's addressed. I would hope ALPA would want to protect mainline careers first and foremost, perhaps is a better way to put it.

socalflyboy

Careful there Bball...your talking sense, won't be tolerated here
I've done this circus...you can lead an ass to water, but you can't make it drink!

XHooker

What was ALPA supposed to do?While there's a valid case for ALPA being "majors only," let's not forget we were the ones who voted away our scope.

And so far we've successfully fended off the first attack.Again... each pilot group voted to give away that flying, it wasn't stolen.
What, specifically, do you propose?

baseball

Well, What was ALPA supposed to do? That is really a long answer.

First, ALPA needs to forbid membership into the union for all scabs.
Second, ALPA should have been telling pilots back in the 80's if you scab you are done in the USA. No second chances. Go over-seas and go away.


Second, ALPA bribed the L CAL scabs by forgiving them to get their vote to join ALPA. ALPA seems to put membership numbers above unity. ALPA cares more about how many dues paying members it has in its ranks than the actual unity of the membership. ALPA tells its members NOT to scab and to be unified, then it forgives scabs just to get their critical vote to join ALPA in addition to gaining additional revenue stream from that membership. 800 L CAL scabs at $3500.00 per year is allot of steak dinners at Charlie Palmers in DC.

Third, ALPA needs to get membership "buy in" and membership "direction" on how to handle the regional issue. Our members do not drive the ship at all on this matter. I have seen ALPA over the last 20 years tell us members how we need to bring in the regionals under the ALPA umbrella to solve the problem, but all that did was result in a conflict of interest and of course more dues dollars for ALPA. Meanwhile, the Legacy and mainline carriers negotiate against ourselves with our own dues money while funding the regionals contract negotiations and contract maintenance. We pay for them to play. ALPA isn't wearing the pants, and the pilots most certainly are not driving the ship.