gettinbumped

Still, you run into the same problem in reverse. Crews use an international FP 99.9% of the time, and then they get a 777 leg SFO-ORD. It makes it very difficult to try to remember what's on the flight plan if you only see it once every 2 years or so.

syd111

The dispatchers don't actually send us the sabre flight plan as it has too many altitude changes that we can't really do while flying, polar sa, pacific or atlantic. It has the route and of course over fly costs savings which most could figure out on there own. But from what dispatch tells me they fine tune it because of altitude. I am not against sabre but to throw out figure like all the savings reminds me of every email I get from this company patting themselves on the back for savings.

Really don't belive the savings is as much as you were quoting, not anymore than I belive the special assignments folks that have been working on our ipads for 4 or 5 years.

But hey I do like the flight plan.

Flytolive

Actually, it is a Sabre flight plan with some real-world common sense and experience injected into it by dispatchers and pilots like any flight planning system. Dispatchers have the time and inclination to compare, contrast and minimize overflight fees? That doesn't sound very practical given the manpower and time constraints. That is kind of the whole point of such automation. I don't think the whiz wheels are coming back.

I actually think it sounds conservative or why else would L-UAL have gone to the trouble to implement it and then Abbott et al sign off on it unlike most other L-UAL programs.

gofastmopar

I like the Etops info inserted into the OFP and find the fuel burn to be virtually spot on..... As long as you fly the speed of the OFP.... At the same time I've never carried more fuel to dest....both domestic and intl....

syd111

Like I said I do like many things about the sabre flight plan, but as far as putting too much into what our management team says we save with, well sorry that isn't one of them. But hey if you believe what they say go for it.

jsled

c'mon Sid ol' chap. You know that Sabre flight plans run circles around Unimatic. Roll with the changes ol' bean. Because they are here to stay. Live it.

Sunvox

Surprising I know, but I'm afraid I would have to disagree wholeheartedly. I came from the 76T and went to the 756 fleet. The Sabre flight plan is designed to present the information in a logical format that is user friendly. Take a Phoenix flight plan and lay it alongside a Sabre flight and then start highlighting the information you need and tell me which is easier. The Sabre flight plan is broken into logical sections with everything clearly labeled, and for international flights it has ETOPs information at a logical point in the plan along with places and reminders to complete procedures. The "Howgozit" is only good if you fly the plan but even if you don't it provides a means to check fuel score and time against the plan to see how you are progressing, and how is it not better than guys adding up time for each segment and writing on the Phoenix plan which had no space allowance as was the technique previously? I agree that domestically it is often difficult to fly the plan, but I can assure you that in the several dozen cases where I have been on flights that flew the plan to Europe and back the Sabre flight plan can be highly accurate and efficient.

I realize pilots hate change, but I hope you will stop and reconsider whether you are disregarding a useful tool because you hate the origin or whether you have genuinely tried to learn how the tool can be beneficial in making your life easier.





I flew with Bob Zettel last summer. He was one of the pilots in charge of rolling out Sabre at L-UAL. According to him dispatchers struggle with using Sabre to it's maximum efficiency because it requires them to input significant data so they often circumvent the program by starting with the destination fuel and working backwards which is not the way the plan is supposed to work. He suggested requesting a "policy plan" from the dispatchers which in theory they should understand, but in reality when captain's I worked with tried to ask for a "policy plan" many dispatchers simply replied with "huhh"?

As with any new technology I think it will be a while before we begin to reap the full benefit. I just hope we as change hating pilots don't throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

BMEP100

I am not one that dislikes technology changes - unless the reason for the change is not for efficiency, which this does not help on the domestic routes. It just adds to workload.

As for the Howgozit- I really don't care much domestically. Getting shortcuts is routine- that negates it as does ATC re-routes for various reasons. May sound good to the desk pilot but not worthwhile in real life. However- the FMC on the 767-400 and our -200 had (have) the ability to print an accurate howgozit at any point in flight even including with route changes. In 2004 there was a prompt on page 1 of the route page for "print". Printing it would run the entire rest of the plan with all the active points including arrivals to landing based on current fuel and winds. That ability was turned off without explanation or notice. I think it was because the lead LCA didn't like IRO's (bunkies) using it instead of running the numbers with a pen. I believe it could be re-enabled (not sure) it would be more accurate than the current howgozit.

Don't know if the ability existed in the 757 FMC at the time.

The big problem I see with Sabre is that we cannot modify it to fit our needs without the agreement of a bunch of other users in Europe. It is literally a design by committee. So (ie); if well all agree we want to see full filed route on page one, we can't change the format to fit us.

MasterOfPuppets

I ran into a buddy of mine the other day who is on the 787 they are using paper log books. ***! why are we taking new aircraft that don't meet the needs of the future fleet??

I'm glad we made money this quarter but Jeff is still an abortion of a CEO.

BMEP100

Has nothing to do with the aircraft. It is the system.

I have no love for the "electronic log book". What do I care whether it is paper or plastic? What I care about is the effort I have to make to report squawks, and I don't much like typing on the little acars keypad while leaning forward to do it.
Right now we on the LCAL side have the worst ( we have to do both)

Maybe if we get the IPAD integrated so we can type reports on that it will be okay- but still not as easy as a Parker on paper.