Anybody else catch the latest LSC letter?
05-08-2014, 08:12 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Gets weekends off
Posts: 1,168
Hope:
When was the last time LUAL was adding pilot jobs? Did your last legacy contract protect your flying in the event of a merger? What was the last seniority integration, prior to the last two completed under the new ALPA merger policy, that put furloughed pilots ahead of active pilots? When did LUAL last put new metal into the air? What was the seniority percentage of your most junior FO holding the highest paying aircraft pre merger? Please educate me.
When was the last time LUAL was adding pilot jobs? Did your last legacy contract protect your flying in the event of a merger? What was the last seniority integration, prior to the last two completed under the new ALPA merger policy, that put furloughed pilots ahead of active pilots? When did LUAL last put new metal into the air? What was the seniority percentage of your most junior FO holding the highest paying aircraft pre merger? Please educate me.
Then both airlines furloughed.
Then the merger.
Anything that happened after October 2010 was the combined United Airlines.
No one bought the "CAL was still a separate airline until September 2013" argument.
Nowhere in merger policy does it state that furloughed pilots automatically go behind active ones. But to answer your question, the most recent merger (Colgan-Mesaba-Pinnacle) where furloughed pilots were put ahead of active because 1) They had more longevity, and 2) Higher status and category because some of those airlines flew smaller propeller airplanes. When you read the Award that the arbitrators gave, they give numerous examples throughout history where furloughed pilots were put ahead of active ones.
Also, seniority percentages don't mean anything really. That's why every merger has used stovepiping.
None of us are thrilled with the SLI result nor the fences. Most LUAL pilots were placed with other pilots with far less seniority and merged in. Except for pass travel, their greater length of service will account for very little.
But a question.... When merger policy has the word "longevity" as a factor, what do you think that means? Lemme guess, if the other side has more of it its just something to think about, but I'll bet if the CAL side had more aggregate longevity we would have heard a LOT about it during the hearings.
05-08-2014, 09:57 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
There were more than 300 pilots holding awards from system bid 1402 and 1402A that had not yet begun training on the date the ISL became effective. Those pilots should not have gone to training after October 1st, but the company deemed the cost of not training them and rebidding the vacancies to be too great and proceeded to train them anyways in violation of the award. There is no doubt the arbitrators will find the company in violation, but given recent history I think it is safe to assume there will be no penalty for failing to abide by the contract other than a slap on the wrist. As was the case with the profit sharing the company is violating our contracts in a manner that favors one group over another and creating dissension in the rank and file. This is classic anti-labor behavior designed to weaken the union in the long run. Unfortunately for L-UAL pilots this impacts them very negatively. I for one would have taken a bid to the 777 in Newark. There have been many L-CAL pilots trained to EWR 777 since December. All were recipients of awards from 1402A or 1402 and all that training was a direct violation of the award.
05-09-2014, 06:58 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 521
I would dispute the number of pilots that had been advanced post sli. Regardless, the company did not send any of them to training based on their 14-02 award. Their 14-02 award was removed. At that point, the company complied with the Sfo mou. That mou states that those pilots will have displacement rights. The untrained pilots from. 14-02 participated in a displacement bid. Some of the were senior to staffed BES 737 Captains and bid accordingly. Some were senior to 777 fo's and bid accordingly. The majority bid into 756 FO, 737 FO, and 787 FO seats. There were many pilots who did not have a junior pilot staffed in their 14-02 awarded bes and were not able to displace into those seats. All of this was agreed to by both mec's via the Sfo MOU. All of it also complies with the terms and conditions of the ISL.
NO agreement said that they could bump if the SLI canceled their bid.
They should have remained in their present seat and then participated in the next bid.
So many of these guys got Captain bids out of seniority from 2010-2013. That just confused them into thinking they were senior to LUAL 1997 hires.
Well....now they know different.
Enjoy reserve for the next 10 years.
05-09-2014, 07:24 AM
#87
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
The SLI stated that they would lose their bids.
NO agreement said that they could bump if the SLI canceled their bid.
They should have remained in their present seat and then participated in the next bid.
So many of these guys got Captain bids out of seniority from 2010-2013. That just confused them into thinking they were senior to LUAL 1997 hires.
Well....now they know different.
Enjoy reserve for the next 10 years.
NO agreement said that they could bump if the SLI canceled their bid.
They should have remained in their present seat and then participated in the next bid.
So many of these guys got Captain bids out of seniority from 2010-2013. That just confused them into thinking they were senior to LUAL 1997 hires.
Well....now they know different.
Enjoy reserve for the next 10 years.
05-09-2014, 07:37 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
The SLI stated that they would lose their bids.
NO agreement said that they could bump if the SLI canceled their bid.
They should have remained in their present seat and then participated in the next bid.
So many of these guys got Captain bids out of seniority from 2010-2013. That just confused them into thinking they were senior to LUAL 1997 hires.
Well....now they know different.
Enjoy reserve for the next 10 years.
NO agreement said that they could bump if the SLI canceled their bid.
They should have remained in their present seat and then participated in the next bid.
So many of these guys got Captain bids out of seniority from 2010-2013. That just confused them into thinking they were senior to LUAL 1997 hires.
Well....now they know different.
Enjoy reserve for the next 10 years.
I too wish the pilots that are at the bottom of the 737 ca bes's well and hope that they enjoy their job. It's nice to know that while we differ in our opinion on this subject, that in the end we are all United pilots working toward a common goal.
Fraternally,
CalFo
05-09-2014, 08:10 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
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