Profit Sharing Grievance
03-12-2014, 01:38 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: B737ca
Posts: 156
The legacy United pilot side difference wasn't management. It was the pilot group, including the mid level pilot managers that made being a United pilot enjoyable... respectable.... professional.
You've heard it before, from the new hire treatment at United (wing ceremonies at a company paid dinner) to nice aircraft pictures and coffee table book for retirement. You know the CAL experience so I won't detail it. But it was the pilots, not management, that made the pilot experience at United what it was... IOW, screw management, we don't want or need them to define us, (they will fund it though
)
I can go into any legacy united chief pilot office and talk about scabs, ALPA, the profession, etc....( I got my scab clicker in ops.)
I am not comfortable doing that on the CAL side..
The pilots on the United side made the job/career what it was... we all engaged in the process... and if guys weren't actually doing union work, you knew they supported the guys who did....
Sure there were problems... the internal political fighting on the U-MEC was complex, nasty and counter-productive.
So I guess, the question becomes... what do you want?
I'd be glad if the 97 hires, NY Air, and PE guys would get on board, but my focus is the 05-07 hires. Let's see if the following can stick or degenerate into another ****ing contest.
The CAL MEC/NC/Merger committee did a poor job.
CAL pilot expectations were poorly managed.
Compare your MAD 2010 Seniority list to the ISL.
Read, actually read, the ISL opinion and award.
Accept that CAL pilots accepted ALPA merger policy and it was applied fairly.
There are no conspiracies or back room deals.
The chances or decertifying ALPA or overturning the ISL are low and highly expensive.
Reconcile all of this.... close the history book... Look forward.
I can type for hours how management has and will continue to divide us....
By now the CAL guys know that not wearing your pin is a hard core FU to every United pilot. What do you hope to gain in the long run?
With all pilots on board, sans scabs, we can do two things:
Get the best contract we deserve.
Create the best pilot culture and profession in the world. Yeah, I just said that... the World.
The choice is each individual pilots.... get engaged and unified, or get divided and owned. What do you want?
You've heard it before, from the new hire treatment at United (wing ceremonies at a company paid dinner) to nice aircraft pictures and coffee table book for retirement. You know the CAL experience so I won't detail it. But it was the pilots, not management, that made the pilot experience at United what it was... IOW, screw management, we don't want or need them to define us, (they will fund it though
)I can go into any legacy united chief pilot office and talk about scabs, ALPA, the profession, etc....( I got my scab clicker in ops.)
I am not comfortable doing that on the CAL side..
The pilots on the United side made the job/career what it was... we all engaged in the process... and if guys weren't actually doing union work, you knew they supported the guys who did....
Sure there were problems... the internal political fighting on the U-MEC was complex, nasty and counter-productive.
So I guess, the question becomes... what do you want?
I'd be glad if the 97 hires, NY Air, and PE guys would get on board, but my focus is the 05-07 hires. Let's see if the following can stick or degenerate into another ****ing contest.
The CAL MEC/NC/Merger committee did a poor job.
CAL pilot expectations were poorly managed.
Compare your MAD 2010 Seniority list to the ISL.
Read, actually read, the ISL opinion and award.
Accept that CAL pilots accepted ALPA merger policy and it was applied fairly.
There are no conspiracies or back room deals.
The chances or decertifying ALPA or overturning the ISL are low and highly expensive.
Reconcile all of this.... close the history book... Look forward.
I can type for hours how management has and will continue to divide us....
By now the CAL guys know that not wearing your pin is a hard core FU to every United pilot. What do you hope to gain in the long run?
With all pilots on board, sans scabs, we can do two things:
Get the best contract we deserve.
Create the best pilot culture and profession in the world. Yeah, I just said that... the World.
The choice is each individual pilots.... get engaged and unified, or get divided and owned. What do you want?
You say get Unified yet you subtly bash CAL pilots and say how great the UAL way was?.... Yet you know nothing of what it was actually like to work at CAL, you want to be unified, drop the Old UAL bullcrap, that's a dead, broken, long gone airline. Most of the ex UAL guys I fly with like the CAL side better, it's a much more pleasant place to work. If you want unification let go of the past yourself.
03-12-2014, 02:09 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
You say get Unified yet you subtly bash CAL pilots and say how great the UAL way was?.... Yet you know nothing of what it was actually like to work at CAL, you want to be unified, drop the Old UAL bullcrap, that's a dead, broken, long gone airline. Most of the ex UAL guys I fly with like the CAL side better, it's a much more pleasant place to work. If you want unification let go of the past yourself.
1) No CAL pilot ever wanted this merger.
2) United was like the Titanic; it kept running into the iceberg over and over.
3) It's all about the W2.
4) You know what junior CAL pilots have learned from all this? It's better to be a SCAB because they have the best careers.
and then there's the other trivia:
1) no one knew about escape routes over Greenland including LCA.
2) cockpit had numerous items worth writing up, but "we don't worry about that small stuff"
3) all flight planning done at the hotel without any FO input
4) crew desk took away a flying id and converted me to IRO for another FOs IOE. That's a grievance, but apparently it is standard operation at CAL and the FOs don't complain.
5) 78 hours min a month for bid range versus 70 on UAL side. For the W2 worshippers that's great but for those of us happy to make our minimum who want to enjoy life at home that's two days lost at work.
6) meals: your specific crew meal doesn't exist and you eat when the FAs finish their service. None of this eating first crap. The pilots are last.
7)Most guys bring their own minitel because minitels aren't always in the cockpit. Apparently they kept getting stolen and now the company has taken to putting a metal collar on the wires and screwing them into the sidewall to keep them from getting stolen but meantime most CAL pilots seem to think it is their responsibility to bring their own minitel.
8) International law prohibits flying ECON over the Atlantic but that's how they do it at CAL. Manage ECON to stay close but not exactly on speed because they told ATC that they agreed ATC could give them the speed but ATC couldn't tell them HOW to fly that speed so using ECON is ok. and of course CAL saves sooooo much gas by playing around with ECON the whole way across instead of just putting in .80. Yeah .80 would be too easy
So far NOT impressed and actually very disappointed that I already ran into Captains that are willing to bring politics into the cockpit. To me not so professional and it will make for a sadly tortuous career based in EWR if they are the "norm". Hopefully I just got unlucky on my first couple flights and things will get better. At least that's what I'm hoping . . .
Last edited by Sunvox; 03-12-2014 at 02:36 PM.
03-12-2014, 02:23 PM
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're not alone. Most guys flying with those guys are using basic CLR and not letting them bend the airplane or hurt anybody. They other stuff is an ego problem - just don't let it go so far as to compromise safety.
You're not alone. Most guys flying with those guys are using basic CLR and not letting them bend the airplane or hurt anybody. They other stuff is an ego problem - just don't let it go so far as to compromise safety.
Last edited by hopeSales; 03-12-2014 at 02:45 PM.
03-12-2014, 03:48 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
"6) meals: your specific crew meal doesn't exist and you eat when the FAs finish their service. None of this eating first crap. The pilots are last"
Not on my jet!
When the crew eats is part of my standard Purser briefing (OK upper deck crew). Oh I forgot they're exUAL FAs.
Not on my jet!
When the crew eats is part of my standard Purser briefing (OK upper deck crew). Oh I forgot they're exUAL FAs.
03-12-2014, 03:51 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
"7)Most guys bring their own minitel because minitels aren't always in the cockpit. Apparently they kept getting stolen and now the company has taken to putting a metal collar on the wires and screwing them into the sidewall to keep them from getting stolen but meantime most CAL pilots seem to think it is their responsibility to bring their own minitel."
If missing this is a standard write up and no-go item. Headsets are mandatory up to FL180.
If missing this is a standard write up and no-go item. Headsets are mandatory up to FL180.
03-12-2014, 03:53 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Sunvox, since you are the at the airplane doing all the checks while the Captain is flight planning I would have authorized you to write up the missing required items, like minitels, so we could depart on time. Cockpit checks are cockpit checks.
03-12-2014, 04:04 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Sunvox,
Sorry to hear. Doesn't one of the atlantic charts say to fly a fixed mach on the nat tracks? Regarding the maintenance items, I'd say he could write it up or call the fodm. His choice. Bet you a beer he backs down.
Sorry to hear. Doesn't one of the atlantic charts say to fly a fixed mach on the nat tracks? Regarding the maintenance items, I'd say he could write it up or call the fodm. His choice. Bet you a beer he backs down.
03-12-2014, 04:16 PM
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
So now your going to do an "AL Gore" and tell the world CAL invented the first CLR program. Your dummied down version(trm) keeps the crew going in circles like gerbils instead of address the real problem. And yes it can be the CAPTAIN or the captain.
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