Profit Sharing Grievance
03-13-2014, 04:49 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
"ECON is SPECIFICALLY prohibited by international law."
Not really.
On certain Pacific routes we fly econ all the time and so does every one else. When I fly the SFO- FRA or LHR we fly ECON except on the class II nav sections and then we use a fixed mach, as prescribed by the route and the WOM.
Don't be such an alarmist. In fact many at UAL over the years have flown ECON as long as it matched the planned and cleared MACH. The problem is you must stay in that % range of the cleared mach on certain routes, Atlantic being a critical area, or else you are in violation of the regulations for that route.
It is a whole lot easier to request a clearance at say .85 and just set it there rather than having to watch the ECON Mach to make sure it doesn't violate the cleared speed requirements.
I'm basically lazy and hate writing reports, so on my flights we fix the mach where it's required. If I was a F/O I would insist upon it and write an IROP and an FSAP if a Captain refused. For sure take it to Professional Standards.
Not really.
On certain Pacific routes we fly econ all the time and so does every one else. When I fly the SFO- FRA or LHR we fly ECON except on the class II nav sections and then we use a fixed mach, as prescribed by the route and the WOM.
Don't be such an alarmist. In fact many at UAL over the years have flown ECON as long as it matched the planned and cleared MACH. The problem is you must stay in that % range of the cleared mach on certain routes, Atlantic being a critical area, or else you are in violation of the regulations for that route.
It is a whole lot easier to request a clearance at say .85 and just set it there rather than having to watch the ECON Mach to make sure it doesn't violate the cleared speed requirements.
I'm basically lazy and hate writing reports, so on my flights we fix the mach where it's required. If I was a F/O I would insist upon it and write an IROP and an FSAP if a Captain refused. For sure take it to Professional Standards.
03-13-2014, 07:03 PM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
Sunvox is not talking about Scabs. He is talking about flying. Yes, it is very different on either side. I don't have any experience on the CO side, he does. Until the CO guys fly with the UA side, you guys really don't have any perspective, nor should you be commenting on the UA side until you do.
Level heads should prevail. He is only stating his personal experience. Not rumor or innuendo. Lies, I think, at worst, is an exaggeration, and at best not true at all. Please refrain from commenting on something you don't have any experience with. Many times, the start to a solution is recognizing there is a problem.
Level heads should prevail. He is only stating his personal experience. Not rumor or innuendo. Lies, I think, at worst, is an exaggeration, and at best not true at all. Please refrain from commenting on something you don't have any experience with. Many times, the start to a solution is recognizing there is a problem.
I had thought Joe was a somewhat moderate, intelligent poster. I guess he is just another addition to my Ignore list.
03-14-2014, 03:45 AM
#115
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is Bull****. I have been flying with ex LUAL types for about a year now. Some are good, some are bad, some have attitudes...Just like the LCAL pilots I have flower with in the past. To come on a PUBLiC forum and rip a pilot group like he did is unprofessional. If the stuff he claims took place there are proper channels to correct the problems. A PUBLIC forum is not the place.
I had thought Joe was a somewhat moderate, intelligent poster. I guess he is just another addition to my Ignore list.
I had thought Joe was a somewhat moderate, intelligent poster. I guess he is just another addition to my Ignore list.
Always keep in mind that it didn't have to be this way - your side choose it.
03-14-2014, 06:12 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 178
There you go - let me say this to clear the air with you very telling statement. There are no ex-LUAL, there are ex-LCAL but the LUAL guys/gals were, are and will continue to be UAL. Where as the ex-CONS (as you like to be referred) will always be ex-CAL and will always share a place with the Lorenzo era. Sorry that's history and considering the actions of your side of late, your history will not change.
Always keep in mind that it didn't have to be this way - your side choose it.
Always keep in mind that it didn't have to be this way - your side choose it.
Now as far as the Lorenzo era, unless you forgot, you have your own darker history as well. I submit the only reason that you got through your strike better than Continental is that they went first and you learned from their mistakes. So rather than throwing aspersions, you should be thanking them for going through what you didn't have to. You won't however because you like to look down on people and your arrogance won't let you. That's fine, sad really, but something I have come to expect from those of you on web forums.
03-14-2014, 06:13 AM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 342
There you go - let me say this to clear the air with you very telling statement. There are no ex-LUAL, there are ex-LCAL but the LUAL guys/gals were, are and will continue to be UAL. Where as the ex-CONS (as you like to be referred) will always be ex-CAL and will always share a place with the Lorenzo era. Sorry that's history and considering the actions of your side of late, your history will not change.
Always keep in mind that it didn't have to be this way - your side choose it.
Always keep in mind that it didn't have to be this way - your side choose it.
Yes LCAL did disappear but, so did "L"UAL soon to be revised in the ops manual!!
We are ALL UAL now. no "L" included!! So, hang on to your crusty attitude as long as you can because in the real near future the majority of the pilots are going to be neither "L" pilots and really won't care what you or I have to say!! I can't wait for that day!!
03-14-2014, 06:28 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Oh yes, there are LUAL. The acronym stands for LEGACY UAL. Legacy stand for pre merger and there is plenty of that mindset around including you. I assume it will remain that way until we are fully integrated and when 90% of us figure out we are all the same and all on the same team.
Now as far as the Lorenzo era, unless you forgot, you have your own darker history as well. I submit the only reason that you got through your strike better than Continental is that they went first and you learned from their mistakes. So rather than throwing aspersions, you should be thanking them for going through what you didn't have to. You won't however because you like to look down on people and your arrogance won't let you. That's fine, sad really, but something I have come to expect from those of you on web forums.
Now as far as the Lorenzo era, unless you forgot, you have your own darker history as well. I submit the only reason that you got through your strike better than Continental is that they went first and you learned from their mistakes. So rather than throwing aspersions, you should be thanking them for going through what you didn't have to. You won't however because you like to look down on people and your arrogance won't let you. That's fine, sad really, but something I have come to expect from those of you on web forums.
03-14-2014, 06:43 AM
#119
Guest
Posts: n/a
Oh yes, there are LUAL. The acronym stands for LEGACY UAL. Legacy stand for pre merger and there is plenty of that mindset around including you. I assume it will remain that way until we are fully integrated and when 90% of us figure out we are all the same and all on the same team.
Now as far as the Lorenzo era, unless you forgot, you have your own darker history as well. I submit the only reason that you got through your strike better than Continental is that they went first and you learned from their mistakes. So rather than throwing aspersions, you should be thanking them for going through what you didn't have to. You won't however because you like to look down on people and your arrogance won't let you. That's fine, sad really, but something I have come to expect from those of you on web forums.
Now as far as the Lorenzo era, unless you forgot, you have your own darker history as well. I submit the only reason that you got through your strike better than Continental is that they went first and you learned from their mistakes. So rather than throwing aspersions, you should be thanking them for going through what you didn't have to. You won't however because you like to look down on people and your arrogance won't let you. That's fine, sad really, but something I have come to expect from those of you on web forums.
What your legacy will include is the actions post strike and that's been covered on this and many other forums.
03-14-2014, 06:55 AM
#120
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry to "bust your bubble" Hope, you're mixing apples and oranges again!! Yes LCAL did disappear but, so did "L"UAL soon to be revised in the ops manual!! We are ALL UAL now. no "L" included!! So, hang on to your crusty attitude as long as you can because in the real near future the majority of the pilots are going to be neither "L" pilots and really won't care what you or I have to say!! I can't wait for that day!!
Yes LCAL did disappear but, so did "L"UAL soon to be revised in the ops manual!! We are ALL UAL now. no "L" included!! So, hang on to your crusty attitude as long as you can because in the real near future the majority of the pilots are going to be neither "L" pilots and really won't care what you or I have to say!! I can't wait for that day!!
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