Profit Sharing Grievance
03-13-2014, 05:32 AM
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hope
Oops you misread what I wrote. I'm an ex UAL pilot who was hired just before the crash in PDX which caused CLR to be invented. CLR was a UAL copyrighted program mandated by the FAA as a result of two pilots letting an egomaniac pilot run the airplane out of fuel. The UAL course used to take several days and many of us took it at the Cherry Creek Inn.
CRM is the FAA, non-copyrighted name and all US certified airlines must have some approved program in place. TEM is the latest dumbed down version of CRM with nothing about captains and crew members fitting into the 1-9 matrix of command types.
Oops you misread what I wrote. I'm an ex UAL pilot who was hired just before the crash in PDX which caused CLR to be invented. CLR was a UAL copyrighted program mandated by the FAA as a result of two pilots letting an egomaniac pilot run the airplane out of fuel. The UAL course used to take several days and many of us took it at the Cherry Creek Inn.
CRM is the FAA, non-copyrighted name and all US certified airlines must have some approved program in place. TEM is the latest dumbed down version of CRM with nothing about captains and crew members fitting into the 1-9 matrix of command types.
03-13-2014, 05:59 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
I flew EWR 756 fo for 13 years and can remember maybe three Capt 's of a certain vintage that at times would attempt to circumvent SOP. All the others were true pros and managed the cockpit in great fashion and adhered to SOP.
Flying the NAT's in ECON mode is 100% legal and the most efficient.
Since day one I had no problem with the FA's feeding revenue BF customers before the cockpit. To put yourself above smells of entitlement.
As a Capt. I too will look at the flight plan in my hotel room before getting on the van, but the official briefing is in the FPA. This allows briefing the FA's early about flt time/turb etc before the pax board. (When we're all on the same van).
I know of several fo's whose seats have been turned into IRO for training and they're all grieving it.
To bombastically claim the incompetence of a whole group of Pilots is a little too much to swallow....
Flying the NAT's in ECON mode is 100% legal and the most efficient.
Since day one I had no problem with the FA's feeding revenue BF customers before the cockpit. To put yourself above smells of entitlement.
As a Capt. I too will look at the flight plan in my hotel room before getting on the van, but the official briefing is in the FPA. This allows briefing the FA's early about flt time/turb etc before the pax board. (When we're all on the same van).
I know of several fo's whose seats have been turned into IRO for training and they're all grieving it.
To bombastically claim the incompetence of a whole group of Pilots is a little too much to swallow....
ECON is SPECIFICALLY prohibited by international law. This is being elevated to the highest levels and I can't wait to see what happens.
Take a look at the other forum where there is a long thread on planning in the hotel. Suffice to say we must agree to disagree. I find that behavior incredibly unprofessional, unsafe, and harmful to our career.
You are heading on a 10 hour flight. Asking to put a meal in the cockpit at level off seems a small price to pay to keep the pilots happy and thereby presumably acting at their best. Seems almost trivial, and I honestly can't believe you would take the other side, but again we will have to agree to disagree.
Bombastic:
adjective
his bombastic speeches could send thousands into the streets: pompous, blustering, turgid, verbose, orotund, high-flown, high-sounding, overwrought, pretentious, ostentatious, grandiloquent; informal highfalutin, puffed up; rare fustian.
Not feeling it. Just pointed out some observations, and it appears to have ticked off a few folks.
Never once did I say ALL or EVERY. Just said this has been my experience in the first 6 weeks. AND for that matter it was in response to Moomba saying it's all peaches and cream over at CAL and you all have no idea what you are talking about because you've never flown here.
I am, and I have.
P.S. Except for the first captain I flew with all the crew members have been fantastic. It's the processes that are imperfect, and I'm sure when the tables turn we'll hear plenty the other way around.
03-13-2014, 06:40 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,860
You know I might have been willing to concede that UAL has it's share of captains that flight plan at the hotel and many new FOs don't know about Greenland Oxygen diversion information. But No. Rather than engage and discuss you're simply gonna tell me I should go back to UAL and leave you alone. Great. Real professional.
03-13-2014, 08:24 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 342
Sunvox is not talking about Scabs. He is talking about flying. Yes, it is very different on either side. I don't have any experience on the CO side, he does. Until the CO guys fly with the UA side, you guys really don't have any perspective, nor should you be commenting on the UA side until you do.
Level heads should prevail. He is only stating his personal experience. Not rumor or innuendo. Lies, I think, at worst, is an exaggeration, and at best not true at all. Please refrain from commenting on something you don't have any experience with. Many times, the start to a solution is recognizing there is a problem.
Level heads should prevail. He is only stating his personal experience. Not rumor or innuendo. Lies, I think, at worst, is an exaggeration, and at best not true at all. Please refrain from commenting on something you don't have any experience with. Many times, the start to a solution is recognizing there is a problem.
) it was a COMPLETE flame bait post!! Were there weak/strong LUAL pilots that I flew with? Absolutely!! Just like Sunvox is experiencing with the LCAL side!! I just think posting something on a public forum that will do nothing but be divisive is counter productive!! Therefore, all I have posted is cultural things which I do believe have been the common theme in the cockpit! If Sunvox were smart he could do what I do when politics are brought up on the Flt deck ignore or change the subject!! Not fun, but works!!
03-13-2014, 11:57 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 194
The legacy United pilot side difference wasn't management. It was the pilot group, including the mid level pilot managers that made being a United pilot enjoyable... respectable.... professional.
You've heard it before, from the new hire treatment at United (wing ceremonies at a company paid dinner) to nice aircraft pictures and coffee table book for retirement. You know the CAL experience so I won't detail it. But it was the pilots, not management, that made the pilot experience at United what it was... IOW, screw management, we don't want or need them to define us, (they will fund it though
)
I can go into any legacy united chief pilot office and talk about scabs, ALPA, the profession, etc....( I got my scab clicker in ops.)
I am not comfortable doing that on the CAL side..
The pilots on the United side made the job/career what it was... we all engaged in the process... and if guys weren't actually doing union work, you knew they supported the guys who did....
Sure there were problems... the internal political fighting on the U-MEC was complex, nasty and counter-productive.
So I guess, the question becomes... what do you want?
I'd be glad if the 97 hires, NY Air, and PE guys would get on board, but my focus is the 05-07 hires. Let's see if the following can stick or degenerate into another ****ing contest.
The CAL MEC/NC/Merger committee did a poor job.
CAL pilot expectations were poorly managed.
Compare your MAD 2010 Seniority list to the ISL.
Read, actually read, the ISL opinion and award.
Accept that CAL pilots accepted ALPA merger policy and it was applied fairly.
There are no conspiracies or back room deals.
The chances or decertifying ALPA or overturning the ISL are low and highly expensive.
Reconcile all of this.... close the history book... Look forward.
I can type for hours how management has and will continue to divide us....
By now the CAL guys know that not wearing your pin is a hard core FU to every United pilot. What do you hope to gain in the long run?
With all pilots on board, sans scabs, we can do two things:
Get the best contract we deserve.
Create the best pilot culture and profession in the world. Yeah, I just said that... the World.
The choice is each individual pilots.... get engaged and unified, or get divided and owned. What do you want?
You've heard it before, from the new hire treatment at United (wing ceremonies at a company paid dinner) to nice aircraft pictures and coffee table book for retirement. You know the CAL experience so I won't detail it. But it was the pilots, not management, that made the pilot experience at United what it was... IOW, screw management, we don't want or need them to define us, (they will fund it though
)I can go into any legacy united chief pilot office and talk about scabs, ALPA, the profession, etc....( I got my scab clicker in ops.)
I am not comfortable doing that on the CAL side..
The pilots on the United side made the job/career what it was... we all engaged in the process... and if guys weren't actually doing union work, you knew they supported the guys who did....
Sure there were problems... the internal political fighting on the U-MEC was complex, nasty and counter-productive.
So I guess, the question becomes... what do you want?
I'd be glad if the 97 hires, NY Air, and PE guys would get on board, but my focus is the 05-07 hires. Let's see if the following can stick or degenerate into another ****ing contest.
The CAL MEC/NC/Merger committee did a poor job.
CAL pilot expectations were poorly managed.
Compare your MAD 2010 Seniority list to the ISL.
Read, actually read, the ISL opinion and award.
Accept that CAL pilots accepted ALPA merger policy and it was applied fairly.
There are no conspiracies or back room deals.
The chances or decertifying ALPA or overturning the ISL are low and highly expensive.
Reconcile all of this.... close the history book... Look forward.
I can type for hours how management has and will continue to divide us....
By now the CAL guys know that not wearing your pin is a hard core FU to every United pilot. What do you hope to gain in the long run?
With all pilots on board, sans scabs, we can do two things:
Get the best contract we deserve.
Create the best pilot culture and profession in the world. Yeah, I just said that... the World.
The choice is each individual pilots.... get engaged and unified, or get divided and owned. What do you want?
Consider yourself "divided and owned".
03-13-2014, 02:58 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
03-13-2014, 03:01 PM
#108
Guest
Posts: n/a
What do you really expect from the LUAL side. We had the poorly handled USAir/AmWest merger and a very successful Delta/NW merger. In hopes of a process that would be more fair to all, both sides agreed to the Delta/NW model. The CAL side, under JP did just about everything to turn it into a USAir experience. You, the rank and file at CAL, did nothing to stop JP. By all indications, you were supporting JP's working with Jeff to gain advantage in money, seat theft, delay in JCBA and going outside the merger policy to steal seniority. And with all that you expect the LUAL side to trust. Sorry, that's earned not passed out like profit sharing.
03-13-2014, 03:43 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 472
I never said ALL CAL pilots are unprofessional. As I said above the IROs I have flown with were "awesome guys". I also very carefully explained that two of the pilots I flew with so far were a) impolite to me and b) not quite as knowledgable as I have come to expect. I went on to say that I realize I may have simply been "unlucky" on a couple of my first trips as I was paired with SCAB captains who clearly did not like the merger as you have so clearly just agreed with in such a nice manner.
So which part of my trivia is not correct? ECON? Minitels? What? Instead of telling me how much you hate UAL why not respond to the individual issues. You know I might have been willing to concede that UAL has it's share of captains that flight plan at the hotel and many new FOs don't know about Greenland Oxygen diversion information. But No. Rather than engage and discuss you're simply gonna tell me I should go back to UAL and leave you alone. Great. Real professional.
So which part of my trivia is not correct? ECON? Minitels? What? Instead of telling me how much you hate UAL why not respond to the individual issues. You know I might have been willing to concede that UAL has it's share of captains that flight plan at the hotel and many new FOs don't know about Greenland Oxygen diversion information. But No. Rather than engage and discuss you're simply gonna tell me I should go back to UAL and leave you alone. Great. Real professional.
I have flown with LUal guys and even went to training with one and haven't noticed the difference between the two groups. Both have good and bad pilots alike. Overall a good experience for me.
It's just loud mouthed internet warriors such as your self and others here and on other forums that seem to seek divisiveness.
If this is how the majority of LUal guys feel then it's going to be a long career for us all. I'm hoping it's just a few disgruntled people like yourself. Before calling me unprofessional you should look in the mirror my union brother!
03-13-2014, 03:53 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
I started out with an open mind with this merger, all I've been hearing since is how "we" lcal guys tried to steal your seniority, back door deals with profit sharing, reclassification of jump seat to suit LUal pilots, we are not as professional as LUal guys and the like. Oh yes we are all scab loving drones! ***!
I have flown with LUal guys and even went to training with one and haven't noticed the difference between the two groups. Both have good and bad pilots alike. Overall a good experience for me.
It's just loud mouthed internet warriors such as your self and others here and on other forums that seem to seek divisiveness.
If this is how the majority of LUal guys feel then it's going to be a long career for us all. I'm hoping it's just a few disgruntled people like yourself. Before calling me unprofessional you should look in the mirror my union brother!
I have flown with LUal guys and even went to training with one and haven't noticed the difference between the two groups. Both have good and bad pilots alike. Overall a good experience for me.
It's just loud mouthed internet warriors such as your self and others here and on other forums that seem to seek divisiveness.
If this is how the majority of LUal guys feel then it's going to be a long career for us all. I'm hoping it's just a few disgruntled people like yourself. Before calling me unprofessional you should look in the mirror my union brother!
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