XHooker

Not for over a decade... well before the MAD.

Enough said.

I suspect that's how many numbers you "dropped" because that's how many LCAL pilots were placed in front of you on the list. Those LCAL pilots brought seats with them. Let's look at this from another (rational) perspective. What percentage were you in the company before and after the merger? What does that percentage allow you to hold? What percentage will you retire at? What will that percentage allow you to hold? What does your "rainbow chart" look like per and post SLI? I can give you my numbers as a mid-seniority CAL pilot. About 4,000 LUAL pilots were placed in front of me. My system percentage went down by over five percent. I probably won't be able to bid any captain positions in another historically CAL base for 2-3 years, even though I could have held those positions continuously from '07 to the present. If my present base shrinks... I lose seniority. If my present base grows... I lose seniority (LUAL pilots bidding in). My retirement number goes from the low three digits to over tripled into the low four digits. I went from retiring as a WB (admittedly 767/787 not 777) captain in a "stovepipe" bid, to retiring as a 757 captain. Though I haven't seen it, I'm told my "rainbow chart" comparison is flat our ugly.

All of us have some claim to getting the short end of the stick whether it be someone hired after you is now senior to you (I'm senior to pilots hired almost two years before me at UAL), or your career progression is well behind what it once was because of the SLI (true in my case). Many have spent years on furlough... twice... and my "plight" as a never furloughed lineholding captain for the last seven years doesn't compare to theirs. I'm a UAL pilot now, it's in the past and I hold no bitterness to anyone... until they start spewing BS about how they got screwed when they didn't. The only thing worse than a gloating winner is one who won and cries about how he deserved even more.

LAX Pilot

Dd you read the arbitration? All this was refuted. UAL total compensation more for every airplane. You just picked one variable and out ev erythi got it, just like the CAL MC did.

That didn't work very well, did it?

LAX Pilot

Pre-merger I could hold Airbus Captain. Actually, I either flew as or had bid awards as a narrowbody Captain (guppy, 727, and Airbus) at United since 1999. (That's 11 years) I was about 54% on the list in 2010.

Also, the relative percentage is not comparable because the fleets were not relatively the same. One fleet had 72 widebody airplanes, the other 22. One fleet had 275 guppies. The other had 150 Airbus. So lots of slots for UAL at the top for widebody Captains, and lots of little narrowbody FO slots that had to be put at the bottom of each list and pilots put into those slots.

So I certainly didn't expect to stay the same in relative percentage. I expected to go up.

I'm sure if you had merged with jet Blue you'd have wanted the same thing because they have no widebody airplanes.

Additionally, I have longevity, and it was more than the relative percentage of the person I was paired with.

Also, I retire at exactly the same place relatively, and move up relatively the same as well. No difference in the charts for me really.

So having a "status and category" advantage because of airplane mix, PLUS a longevity advantage, these both gave me a 2% increase in my relative seniority. Big Deal.

Sunvox basically predicted where we would end up within about 200 numbers about 6 months ago. He almost nailed the formula, except he didn't include longevity, which moved us up from his analysis.

Knotcher

So you get it, but just don't want to accept it. Capability does not mean profitable. The 757 is heavier and less fuel efficient for the same number of passengers as a 737-900. I love the 757 as much as anybody but the numbers don't lie. Yea it can do the Quito/Bogota thing but big deal, that is 2% of the flights. For the other 98%, the 900 gets the job done cheaper than the 757. That is just good business.

intrepidcv11

Poor LAX. Dropping numbers and getting the once in a blue moon weight restriction. Its not easy being a Jumbonaut.

flybynuts

Sshhh...don't reveal facts and business models. Some of the heads here will explode. Btw... 787 is doing over 17% better than already forecasted in cost and savings. Huge numbers...may actually be a game changer.

LAX Pilot

Sounds like the pay banding really helped the company here. Too bad it didn't help for SLI.

Slats Extend

Really? considering all the cancelled flights and diverts? No doubt at some point they will be able to remove the X prefex from all the N numbers. I have a hard time believing it has yet to contribute above the x axis...

flybynuts

Lax,
You need to relax. Your flamitory post and deliberate attacks are not helping anything or anybody.

flybynuts

Slats...are you at the meetings where all the metrics are covered and the hard numbers are published? (Even with all the issues the plane is doing better than expected.) If so, PM me so we can meet at the next meeting. They, the 787s, are contributing in the now and doing well. Think how much better when the plane is fully operational and it capability will be even better.

A simple observation for this forum. People pass conjecture and opinion as fact all while being wrong or misguided and then either inflate or try and brow beat those that actually know(maybe years of oppression has taken its toll?".

I'm not asking to trust management but please refrain from "opinion and what I heard" asinine comments. These forums are thick with them. Opinion's here are barely half truths.