cadetdrivr

That's exactly why they did it.

On the 737 FO list a 'senior' (cough) furloughed UA pilot hired in '99 is just above 30% in EWR or IAH, ~40% in ORD or LAX, and ~50% in SFO. A huge number of non-furloughed, non-locked, A320 FOs hired prior to '99 would have an immediate and dramatic increase in QOL simply by going to the 737.

My fearless prediction: it will take a few years but ultimately the 320 and 737 will look more like it did at LUAL with pilots of similar seniority spread over both aircraft except the 737 will be more senior at the top end because of the 900ER (pay and segment length). In essence, it will be a reversal of the way the lists look today on those two aircraft.

Richiscool

I saw the list, 3 guys are Uhires, so, not all new hires

Mach93

Exactly, I would be around 60% in EWR. Still not worth it to commute. It is Newark after all.

mossimo

Last time I checked we are one list now. I think the term would be returning furloughees.

Mach93

Unless they release seat locks (which is at their discretion) Who's gonna bid those open slots on the 320 that wouldn't have all ready.

Really

No LAX, what your surprised is that both sides were full of Cr@p with their arguments about why their airline is better than yours!! The thing that I got a chuckle out of was all the "HEAVY WHALE" types bidding onto the "itty bitty guppy commuter" aircraft that CAL brought to the table!! Bottom line like MANY people said on here prior to isl. Some people bid A/C type but, seniority position is usually a much higher priority for most. Now maybe you can believe some of the CAL guys when they say if there were no fences, yes some senior guys would bid onto the 747 or 787 but, it wouldn't be the BIG wave you guys thought it would be! Now hopefully, everyone can calm down and realize it's going to be ok!

jetlink

I see few guys biding from SFO A320 to LAX B737 FOs, they are 9500 to 9600 seniority range. According to UPA, unless you are in training freeze, you should have your desire equipment and base awarded, if vacant.


8-C-4 Awarding of Vacancies
Upon closing of a vacancy bulletin, pilots shall be awarded the number of advertised primary vacancies. At the same time, pilots may be awarded secondary vacancies that have become available due to the awarding of the advertised primary vacancies. Further, awards may be made to fill the vacancies resulting from all subsequent awards. Secondary vacancies shall be awarded to ensure the published minimum number of positions are maintained for all Categories. These secondary vacancies shall not have been advertised, but shall share the same effective date as the primary vacancies.

8-C-5 Except as provided in Section 8-C-6, the most senior Pilot eligible (as defined by Section 8-D) for a vacancy shall be awarded such vacancy in accordance with his bid choices.

8-D-1 Equipment Training Freeze

8-D-1-a When a Pilot enters training for a vacancy award, he may be ineligible to be awarded another vacancy for twenty-four (24) months if the number of training days (excluding days off) for the training he has entered is thirteen (13) days or greater, or for twelve (12) months if the training he has entered is less than thirteen (13) days. There shall be no restriction on his eligibility to be awarded another vacancy if training is not required.

8-D-1-b An Equipment training freeze shall also apply to a Pilot who requires training upon being hired as a Pilot or upon being recalled from furlough.

8-D-1-c An Equipment training freeze shall begin the first day a Pilot starts training, and shall apply to any vacancy bulletin whose closing date falls within the duration of the freeze.

8-D-1-d An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot in a lowernumbered Equipment/pay band from being awarded a vacancy in a higher-numbered Equipment/pay band, pursuant to the bands described below:
1) 321/320/319FO, 737FO
2) 767/757FO
3) 747FO, 777FO, 787FO, 350FO
4) 321/320/319CA, 737CA
5) 767/757CA
6) 747CA, 777CA, 787CA, 350CA

8-D-2 Bidding Freeze

8-D-2-a When a Pilot is awarded an assignment through vacancy bidding and such award does not move him from a lower-numbered band to a higher-numbered band in accordance with Section 8-D-1-d, he may be ineligible to be awarded any other vacancy for twenty-four (24) months. However, a Pilot shall be eligible to be awarded a vacancy for a ; present Equipment and Status remain the same) without incurring an additional bidding freeze.

LAX Pilot

Out of 1,500 Widebody Captains and F/O's about 10 of them bid from Widebody to Guppy, which is far less than 1% so that clearly proves they would rather stay in those seats.

So yes, it does reaffirm what was said all along. Also with the 787 in LAX. Notice pilots not in the top 10% can't bid it because it went senior, but all the guppy Captain slots went more junior?

So widebody = desirable. Guppy = less desirable.

Which is why they are putting the new hires in the right seat of the guppy. They can't get enough pilots to want to fly the cute little thing.....

Toddnel

I agree, I would rather be on the 777 or 747 than the 737 (Guppy was always a stupid name). But, that is with the schedule I have today. If I was real junior on the widebody, I would consider the 737. First off it's not that small anymore now that its larger than the 757. Second, this isn't the same 737 UAL flew between Denver and Omaha. If you are senior on it, you can hold island and South America layovers at nice resorts with beaches and casinos. I was in the right seat for 5 years and the left for just over 2 before I was senior enough to get on the 777. The gig was a good one if you were senior. I kind of miss the St Maarten, Punta Cana and St Thomas layovers.

LAX Pilot

Too bad the pay doesn't reflect that. The failed SLI grab pay banding which didn't work.

Now we have to live with the cruddy guppy payrates.

At least the 757s are being parked, so we don't have to worry about flying them at guppy payrates.