boxer6

Interesting comment there Todd. Makes you wonder if the scabs went to the school house because of the good deal, ORRRR.... it was a good deal because the scabs were in the school house.

Toddnel

There were a bunch of scabs but there were a lot of very good people in the training center. To say they were all scabs is very incorrect! The group negotiated hard to get what they had, I'm surprised that the UAL folks didn't want that type of deal.

ron kent

The reason DENTK people didn't need that type of deal is because they don't commute. No point in spending negotiating capital on it.

LAX Pilot

You forgot that the contract negotiations was a 3 party negotiation, so apparently the CAL side threw their PIs out the window to get the pay banding, which ended up not helping them in the SLI one bit.

But it feels so good to get paid guppy pay to fly a 757 now.

boxer6

I'm sure there were good folks there and not denigrating them at all.

I never said they were all scabs, or even mostly scabs,if you re-read my post. I just found it curious as that is where more than a few scabs were (either instructors/heading the fleets or in charge of the whole building) and if that had anything to do with the sweet deal there. Only was trying to glean WHY the company agreed to such a great deal to those in the training center. If negotiating capital was spent to get the deal, then what had to be given up and who (JR folks maybe?) had to pay for it? For a contract that was not known for being generous, the deal at the training center seems to an outlier by 2 or 3 standard deviations. That, to me, was interesting.

Toddnel

Im just wondering why you would allow a pay rate cap and FO's doing the training when the majority of the arguments on here from the UAL side scream for the need to create the most Captain seats possible. If the school house was entirely Captains and is now mostly FO's, that is a whole lot of positions you willingly give up.

It seems to me that the pay rate cap and no commuting benefits keeps it from being such a sweetheart deal that others might want to come in.

oldmako

I think you've got some apples mixed in with the oranges. I don't care if my PI is a Captain or an F/O, only that he's sharp and can install things in my thick cranium.

The "screaming" about creating more Captains that you refer to stems from the fact that for the last three years you guys were minting new Captains at a frantic pace. I remember a thousand or so posts concerning the number of Captain seats WRT the eventual ISL list, or grab.

Most of those new Captains were flying out of SFO, LAX, ORD and DEN, traditional LUAL domiciles. All the while, we were applying suction to the rearward most teat (unable to bid on those positions) and supplying the capital for the new airframes. A subtle distinction I know, but a distinction none the less.

Can you imagine if the tables were reversed and the company bombarded EWR and IAH with a boatload of new airframes that you guys were unable to fly? I don't think we were out of line, but then again I'm a bit of a malcontent.

Same old argument, different day.

As far as commuting, I can't comment other than that we have a ton of USAF types from COS working at TK. So for many of them its probably not too much of a commute. Seems to me that most have been locals.

I have been through 7 complete schools while at UAL and I have been very pleased with the quality of the PI's and Standards Captains. I certainly hope that doesn't change as a result of our merger. I know that they used to have a pretty sweet gig. I know nothing of the new arrangement.

LAX Pilot

They didn't have any new growth in EWR or IAH so there was none to be had. All the growth was on the UAL side, but we weren't allowed to fly it.

Probe

There was no growth, we have shrank mainline capacity every year since the merger. There was a transference of flying from 757's to 737's. And from one pilot group to the other. JP even said we had too many pilots. 757 pilots. The latter problem will soon be rectified with displacements. Very soon.

TK puts out a good product. No complaints.

flybynuts

Ron,
I was under the impression that most PIs at Den were there because Den is very senior and thus it was a place for junior people to go to to avoid communting to their actual positions. Based on spending tons of time at TK and what the PIs told me.

As for the new training contract. I know who negotiated it and he did a horrible job because he didn't understand certain metrics and the company was screaming about costs. Ask your buds at Delta and AA and see how they pay their PIs. Ours, similar to your old TK one, is not that good.