CAL MEC Statement
09-11-2013, 05:15 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
. . . . All these aircraft were ordered around 2006 time frame, 4 years before the MAD and well before the merger at any legacies was even feasible. Had it not been for the economic downturn, none of these mergers would have been approved by the DOJ.
I'm not saying it's unfair, its reality.
You really think CAL wasn't going to get the aircraft orders without UAL? You didn't seem to address that fact. What was CAL going to do with all its aircraft orders absent a merger?
Here are a couple facts and a quote from the 2009 Continental Annual Report:
Capacity. Because of the adverse economic conditions in 2009, we reduced our consolidated capacity by 5.2% in 2009 and rescheduled aircraft deliveries. We do not anticipate returning to significant capacity growth unless the level of demand for air travel, economic conditions and our financial performance improve sufficiently to justify such growth.
We expect only modest capacity growth for 2010, with our consolidated capacity increasing between 1.0% and 2.0%.
We expect only modest capacity growth for 2010, with our consolidated capacity increasing between 1.0% and 2.0%.
2) The fleet count since the merger was completed is down for mainline, but CAL has dramatically increased block hours. That equals GROWTH, but NOT because of airplane orders.
CAL HAD a growth plan, but this industry turns on a dime and the REALITY was the economic downturn and the Delta merger CHANGED everyone's plan. You are arguing about what you believe would have happened and not focusing on what actually happened. I have said numerous times before that I agree with the evidence presented by the UAL specialist namely Continental would easily have obtained financing for their orders and had no trouble getting planes, but as has been pointed out time and again just because a company orders planes with the intent of growing does not mean those plans are written in stone.
The reality is that Continental management in 2009 was looking for 1 to 2% growth going forward in a best case scenario, and what Continental pilots got was greater than 10% growth from 2010 to 2013. If you can not see that the merger boosted growth overall than I'm not sure there is any need to keep pestering you any more.
Continental was a great company and I have many friends (who are now senior to me) that work there, but the merger and the ISL are no reason to go on a "Hate UAL Rampage" which is mostly what I hear from CAL APC posters.
09-11-2013, 06:05 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 178
I'm curious, what is your guys percentages? What I mean is, what is your Oct 1, 2010 system seniority percentage versus now after the ISL? This is for LAX Pilot, CadetDrivr and Sunvox so we have a variety.
09-11-2013, 07:50 PM
#103
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
Of course since we didn't merge with an airline that had the same fleet mix, it isn't apples-to-apples.
I'm not complaining, just stating that our advantage in status and category made that difference as well as longevity.
09-11-2013, 08:16 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: It keeps changing.
Posts: 206
09-11-2013, 09:28 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 510
No UAL furlough got stapled...in fact there are reams of furloughed UALs between each CAL furlough...now thats a hose job.
Having 1400 furloughs versus 147 apparently counts for nothing
09-12-2013, 05:58 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 430
Well, up until last Monday, date of hire hasn't mattered much and longevity was undefined with the new policy. The arbitrators went with the UAL interpretation since Moak refused to define it for them.
Status for furloughs was also undefined.
Well, the precedence is set now. Congrats. Like I've said, you won and so did ALPA.
I think we all knew that ALPA was on notice had the tables been turned in the other direction.
Status for furloughs was also undefined.
Well, the precedence is set now. Congrats. Like I've said, you won and so did ALPA.
I think we all knew that ALPA was on notice had the tables been turned in the other direction.
First of all, MOST of the junior guys are NOT happy about the ISL. Guys like me lost 7.5 years. The difference is we aren't whining for something that we agreed to abide by. Man up and accept the results.
Second, by stating that UAL Pilots are ALPA fans you have shown your ignorance once again.
09-12-2013, 06:37 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: It keeps changing.
Posts: 206
...and I agree, putting any CAL furlough ahead of any UAL furlough IS a hose job.
09-12-2013, 08:13 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: B767/757 Capt
Posts: 182
Some of the 1436 had EIGHT (8) Year on the property when furloughed.
I staple for the UAL guys would have been a hose job.
09-12-2013, 09:10 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
to (6515/12150)=54 %
% active only (4300/6000)=72 %
to (6515/(7000+4400))=63 %
On my iPhone. Numbers are rounded from memory.
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