NFLUALNFL

You gentlemen need to read to the bottom of the list and look where the junior working L-UA folks got placed and with whom they were folded. 1998 junior to 2006.

David Watts

A question to ask pilots at your airline who are bragging: "Are 2006 hires senior to 1999 hires?"

Your answer: "Why yes they are."

Touche

vspeed

That's all right asshat, have your moment...karma'a a *****

By the way...hope you realize how management will fill your vacancies. 1:1 with attrition...it'll be a loooonnggg time....regardless of bumps, welcome to CAL management...it's always been harder to get into the seat than get out. Training costs hurt the bottom line so don't expect a complete reorganization to ease your emotions.. In the next 3 years I'm 1000 more numbers senior and at 61%...so you can leapfrog on paper all you want...reality is what it is. I may stagnate but your going to be pulling your hair out as the staffers only train what they need and mostly on a seasonal basis. Also expect full reserve airport standby duty to kick in to prevent further training. You may have won the union battle but get ready to get a big old taste of management. Don't blame me. You probably voted the JCBA in. Enjoy! I'll be the one standing by starbucks saying I told you so...in my new Slick Tie drinking a latte watching you haul ass to preflight the plane for your 4 striper...

Sunvox

N-

I don't want to speak for the other APC UAL posters but my point is not and will never be that this list was a "good deal". My point is that guys like Kilder and VSpeed still exist. There are many CAL pilots who genuinely believe the arbitrators were wrong, and Continental had a great future and United had none. I just hope above all hope that some of these guys can start to see just how far off base their expectations have been. Expectations that were in no small measure created by JP and his MC teams arguments which were utterly and wholly rejected by independent observers.

I am sorry that ALPA policy did not push the longevity clause harder and the junior UAL pilots feel as if they lost too much seniority, but I am happy that the arbitrators used their wisdom to actually follow the policy as best as possible.


I used this example in another post months back, and I know it doesn't matter to you either way but here is how I see the issue from the CAL perspective.

Imagine 2 companies that fly only 747s with 1000 pilots each. Company A started flying in 1980 and hired all it's pilots on 1/1/1980. Company B also has 1000 pilots and flies only 747s, but they started flying in 1995 and hired all their pilots on 1/1/1995. Assuming all else is equal a "fair" list would simply merge these two groups 1:1 and so doing would not change the career expectations of Company A one bit, but Company A pilots with 30 years longevity would be sitting on the list with guys that have 15 years less seniority. Hiring datess vary wildly from company to company and that is part of the problem with creating a list like ours.


Bottom line: I don't think this list is "great" but I do think this list is "fair". I only wish V and Kilder would finally come to their senses and agree.

Setopbug

The only emotion some ofyou guys have mastered is "angry."

Let it go.

Lots of United Airlines pilots got screwed and all some of you want to do is assess blame and whine.

Move on, girls.

Setopbug

You wish some anonymous dude on the Internet would side with your argument? Dude, that's pretty lame.

How about this: I'm a 2006 hire CAL guy. I was angry for all of five minutes until I read the decision and realized we'd been spanked. I laughed out loud and let it all go. I would have upgraded on the next systems bid, now it will be 5-10 years. And you know something?

I'm OK with that. I'm glad the arbitrators attempted to render a fair decision. I don't agree with some of their conclusions, but so what?

NONE of that stuff matters now. All that matters is that we work hard together, take care of our crews, have fun and kick Delta's butt. And most importantly? Treat each other well.

Why on earth do want an apology? Do you really think you were right and that because the arbitrator agreed with your argument that your choice of position has anything to do with the truth? There's no icon for me rolling around around on the floor laughing. It's all subjective.

See you on the line, Brother!

vspeed

I'm not angry for myself, but rather the bottom 3rd who got spanked by an arb board wanting to teach a lesson and use a hybrid model rather than the full tenets of ALPA merger policy (hello career expectations????), like I said, going into this I expected nothing more than relative seniority and got that plus a little bump. I am ****ed that Active Cal pilots were thrown under a bus to appease furloughs. It is what it is. Can I change it? No. Will I live with it? No choice. Will I carry this animosity towards ual my entire career? Most definitely. Don't worry, like I said you'll be able to pick me out easily...I'll be wearing the slick tie.
Don't worry, I don't want to talk to you either.

Sunvox

I don't want an apology and I don't want anyone to agree with my arguments; I want people to stop being crazy angry for the wrong reasons, but I completely agree . . . let's move on and start kickin' some Delta butt!







V-

I don't know if its possible for you to have an adult discussion but do you believe longevity should have played no factor in the award or do you honestly believe that the career expectations of Continental pilots were so vastly superior to United pilots that those career expectations should have trumped any difference in longevity?

Just wondering?

Lambourne

The premise of this thread to gloat was really immature. It was just too tempting by one of our 1%'ers to act like this.

We are one group and it does no one any good to be a jerk about the 3panel arb decision.

Let's move on and stop acting like 8 year olds on the playground.

LAX Pilot

They were going to get the Unicorn-ER actually. They had 100 on order, but no backstop financing in place.