Ben
08-23-2013, 08:08 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,369
The "olive branch" was passed to the cal side several times and each time you chose greed over unity. You would have won no matter which proposal was selected but you chose to steal along the way. What is it with the mentality of the cal pilot? Low class and no-class which would you like to be called because that's what you'll be called for attempting to steal from the bottom 1/3 of the UAL list.
In all seriousness, which came first, DAL C2K or UAL's?
I'm pretty sure (but not certain), that DAL has been an industry leader for that time period and previous.
08-23-2013, 08:30 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Bro...please take this back...erase it from our memories like those two black suit wearing dudes from "Men in Black". Especially if you are LUAL.
I heard this argument from some CAL guys as we fought for our contract, they believed that the United contract brought down the airline...what fallacy.
United pilots fought hard for the contract they deserved, especially after the ESOP debacle,, the fall of United was and never could be blamed on the contract they deserved.
Also your argument that CAL had a much lower contract is false. CAL had a very lucrative contract in '98, a contract that brought them in line with UAL and Delta and others. They were not the highest paid, but all together it was a very good contract, especially their scope section.
Were you flying at that time? Did you have any knowledge of CAL's contract or are you like those that once you got hired at UAL you stopped caring about the airline world around you, because you sound very ignorant with that comment.
UAL was brought down by the poor management running it...period.
I heard this argument from some CAL guys as we fought for our contract, they believed that the United contract brought down the airline...what fallacy.
United pilots fought hard for the contract they deserved, especially after the ESOP debacle,, the fall of United was and never could be blamed on the contract they deserved.
Also your argument that CAL had a much lower contract is false. CAL had a very lucrative contract in '98, a contract that brought them in line with UAL and Delta and others. They were not the highest paid, but all together it was a very good contract, especially their scope section.
Were you flying at that time? Did you have any knowledge of CAL's contract or are you like those that once you got hired at UAL you stopped caring about the airline world around you, because you sound very ignorant with that comment.
UAL was brought down by the poor management running it...period.
You and I do not see reality the same. I have been around for almost 18 years, and a student of history since long before that. Labor costs do not cause bankruptcy that is true, but it is the excuse management needs to prove to a judge that the company needs to abrogate their labor contracts. Without the excuse of "high costs" the case to abrogate is weak and uncertain. As proof consider how APA was so much more successful in keeping their pay and benefits during bankruptcy.
For the record, United was restricted to 65 RJs in total prior to our bankruptcy. Do you know how many CAL was restricted to during that period? And as to the CAL contract being similar, that may be true in regards to take home pay, but CAL had no duty rigs and inferior international crew augmentation which resulted in a significant difference in manpower needs. The contracts were not the same in terms of total economic costs by any stretch of the imagination.
Management used bankruptcy as a tool to kill pensions and lower costs, but that strategy would never have worked if all labor costs were approximately equal across the industry. That is a plain and simple fact of reality.
08-23-2013, 08:32 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 281
The "olive branch" was passed to the cal side several times and each time you chose greed over unity. You would have won no matter which proposal was selected but you chose to steal along the way. What is it with the mentality of the cal pilot? Low class and no-class which would you like to be called because that's what you'll be called for attempting to steal from the bottom 1/3 of the UAL list.
08-23-2013, 08:36 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Don't confuse Carlos with facts. He has conveniently forgotten about the Delta "Dot" in a our C2K.
We got the contract first but DL had the B777 rates set as they were getting a new type on the property. Their C2K contract came second but our rates were based on their pre-contract DOT on the chart. Anyone remember the DL sticker with U+ on them?
08-23-2013, 08:36 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
08-23-2013, 12:04 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
I'm not sure "who,we,our and they" are in your rant but The cal side wasn't in contention and set no bars for anybody. In fact SW was chosen for a comparable narrow body, regional carrier for UAL and i think DAL. If you cal guys played the Delta Dot, I don't think anybody else noticed because of the rest of your contract.
08-23-2013, 01:50 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
2. The DL dot was promoted to us UAL pilots by dubo
3. You are embarrassing to the L-UA pilot group with your gross exaggerations of previous UA ALPA success.
4. "Run along?" No thanks, someone has to keep you honest.
08-23-2013, 03:47 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 281
Interesting ... so nothing has been ill gotten or stolen yet, but the CAL MC proposal, if enacted, means we will have stolen from the UAL side .... but wait, the Arbs will prevent one side from stealing from the other .... I guess we find out what the three wise men's perception of reality is in about a week. Will you continue to ignore the world around you, or accept their decree as the final answer?
08-23-2013, 04:26 PM
#110
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
Interesting ... so nothing has been ill gotten or stolen yet, but the CAL MC proposal, if enacted, means we will have stolen from the UAL side .... but wait, the Arbs will prevent one side from stealing from the other .... I guess we find out what the three wise men's perception of reality is in about a week. Will you continue to ignore the world around you, or accept their decree as the final answer?
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