New s-UA 737 Base to Open in November.
07-19-2013, 10:58 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
LCAL union blastmail
"...there are a lot of questions about how we will transition to a single bidding system as we implement the UPA. This week, we finalized an MOU that addresses this issue. The MOU provides for bids at both the L-CAL and L-UAL side in the coming weeks and will also open a new B-737 base in SFO. In addition, it provides protections for pilots who hold positions on the 14-02 bid but have not been trained or advanced. Any pilot who holds a position and is in training or holds a training bid (on the TAB) will be protected to that position. If they are not in training or do not hold a training slot, they will have displacement rights on the first post-SLI bid."
From MOU,
22 LUAL CA
20 LUAL FO
19 LCAL CA
20 LCAL FO
Bidding method will be done by each group's respective bidding process until SLI is done. If SLI is after 15 Sept, 737 LUAL pilots will be trained by LCAL but LCAL and LUAL pilots will not be mixed on the line until allowed.
From MOU,
22 LUAL CA
20 LUAL FO
19 LCAL CA
20 LCAL FO
Bidding method will be done by each group's respective bidding process until SLI is done. If SLI is after 15 Sept, 737 LUAL pilots will be trained by LCAL but LCAL and LUAL pilots will not be mixed on the line until allowed.
Last edited by APC225; 07-19-2013 at 11:11 AM.
07-19-2013, 11:17 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,725
07-19-2013, 11:29 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
"...there are a lot of questions about how we will transition to a single bidding system as we implement the UPA. This week, we finalized an MOU that addresses this issue. The MOU provides for bids at both the L-CAL and L-UAL side in the coming weeks and will also open a new B-737 base in SFO. In addition, it provides protections for pilots who hold positions on the 14-02 bid but have not been trained or advanced. Any pilot who holds a position and is in training or holds a training bid (on the TAB) will be protected to that position. If they are not in training or do not hold a training slot, they will have displacement rights on the first post-SLI bid."
From MOU,
22 LUAL CA
20 LUAL FO
19 LCAL CA
20 LCAL FO
Bidding method will be done by each group's respective bidding process until SLI is done. If SLI is after 15 Sept, 737 LUAL pilots will be trained by LCAL but LCAL and LUAL pilots will not be mixed on the line until allowed.
From MOU,
22 LUAL CA
20 LUAL FO
19 LCAL CA
20 LCAL FO
Bidding method will be done by each group's respective bidding process until SLI is done. If SLI is after 15 Sept, 737 LUAL pilots will be trained by LCAL but LCAL and LUAL pilots will not be mixed on the line until allowed.
Can you post the whole email?
Presumably this means the new SFO base is split between the two sides and UAL-ALPA has agreed to use CAL instructors in Houston for training and is planning on using the existing CAL training program.
Also, do they provide a link to a copy of the MOU?
So my guess on integration:
47/87 fenced so no worries for a couple years; 320 the CAL guys get trained by UAL in DEN; 737 the UAL guys get trained by CAL in IAH; 777/67 end up waiting to be merged after everyone gets spun up on Sabre flight planning, iPads, and ship sets.
Have any CAL '67 guys heard a time line for Sabre training or the arrival of ship sets?
Last edited by Sunvox; 07-19-2013 at 11:49 AM.
07-19-2013, 11:33 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
EDIT: Nevermind . . . I missed the last line in the post. I think maybe it changed while I was typing. Anywhooo very interesting.
07-19-2013, 11:54 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
can you post the whole email?
it's an embedded pdf, like a photo, so can't copy and paste the text.
presumably this means the new sfo base is split between the two sides and ual-alpa has agreed to use cal instructors in houston for training and are using the existing cal training program.
that's how read it
also, do they provide a link to a copy of the mou?
on the union website.
so my guess on integration: 47/87 fenced so no worries for a couple years
that's how I see it since post SLI bidding is into vacancies only.
it's an embedded pdf, like a photo, so can't copy and paste the text.
presumably this means the new sfo base is split between the two sides and ual-alpa has agreed to use cal instructors in houston for training and are using the existing cal training program.
that's how read it
also, do they provide a link to a copy of the mou?
on the union website.
so my guess on integration: 47/87 fenced so no worries for a couple years
that's how I see it since post SLI bidding is into vacancies only.
07-19-2013, 01:02 PM
#139
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
ALPA (UAL and CAL MECs) and management have entered into an MOU that allows for bidding of vacancies for an SFO 737 Base ahead of ISL. The MOU allows the company to post vacancies for the following SFO positions:
-22 UAL Captains and 20 UAL First Officers
-19 CAL Captains and 20 CAL First Officers
These simultaneous vacancies at each subsidiary are expected to be posted prior to the end of July. These vacancies, once awarded, will be pay protected beginning the first bid month after the award and will be seat protected regardless of the ISL. Upon ISL, all other bids on both the s-UAL and s-CAL sides that have not been awarded training dates will be cancelled. Cancelled bids will then be available for bidding by all pilots using their new seniority numbers. Pilots with cancelled bids will have bumping rights. The MOU is attached in its entirety, and an overview is provided below.
OVERVIEW
The MOU is for a SFO 737 base with 22 UAL Captain positions bidding against other UAL pilots. CAL will have 19 Captain positions, and both subsidiaries will have 20 first officer positions each. The bids will be effective immediately and they will be pay and seat protected regardless of ISL. After ISL, the base will become one and subsequent bids are expected. There will be no increase in CAL Captain positions as a result of the SFO 737 base opening – the same numbers from CAL System bid 14-02 will remain. All pilots, UAL and CAL, will bid for training slots in seniority order similar to what CAL does currently, and similar to what was offered the UAL 747-400 crews that were surplused from ORD.
Additionally we resolved, through this MOU, the effect of ISL upon vacancy bids. Anyone who does not have an assigned training date, UAL or CAL, will lose his bid but be allowed bumping rights throughout the system. All open positions as a result of the cancelled 14-02 bids will be rebid by the entire airline using your new seniority numbers.
In the unlikely event the ISL is delayed, the TPA will control cross training and mixing of aircraft, except that United crews will be trained without delay for the 737s scheduled for s-UA delivery. All future bids will be based on the UPA Section 8 vacancy bidding system – there will be no more CAL system bids, regardless.
One item to consider is that the CAL fleet is operating under the CAL computer system, not Unimatic. This means the 737 will have a different dispatch release, different ACARS, different logbook (not electronic) and different flight planning system (Phoenix). The company will provide the necessary instruction within the training footprint for UAL differences in maintenance & dispatch functions, crew scheduling, PBS systems, and any other system changes that differ at that time.
The MOU:
1) Ensures 42 sUA pilots have opportunity to bid SFO 737 positions prior to ISL, minimizes the risk of SFO 737 positions being effectively blocked by either the outcome of the ISL or a delay in its implementation
2) Allows cross-training of sUA 737 pilots by sCO instructors and LCAs in the event of a delay in ISL
3) Allows cross-utilization of all UCH 737s by both sUA and sCO crews
4) Provides pay protection in Bid Period immediately following award
5) Matches sUA training plan with sCO training plan month-for-month
6) Training planned post ISL, with protections if ISL delayed
7) Codifies that new UPA Section 8 bids should be used going forward
8) Codifies award cancelation upon ISL for any bids not holding a training date/TAB
9) Restricts number of sCO positions to current number of 737 positions (i.e., SFO Captain positions will come from other CAL 737 bases, no increase in staffing)
10) Cannot be used by either side in ISL arbitration
11) Reaffirms TPA remains in effect
1) What does TPA allow without this agreement?
A) The TPA extension allows the company to open a sCO SFO 737 base with no sUA slots. The TPA also prevents the company from cross training sUA pilots in Houston, and prevents sUA metal from being flown by sCO crews or vice versa. While the TPA would require the company to train UAL pilots to operate new UAL aircraft, the company could delay introduction of the initial aircraft without significant penalty as late as November as these aircraft come from Boeing without necessary interior upgrades, including the proper seats. This means that the company could delay offering UAL pilots vacancies until after ISL. This letter locks in 42 UAL pilots in SFO ahead of time regardless of the outcome of ISL.
2) When will the sUA crews go to training if the ISL is completed on time?
A) Possibly as early as September. The first sUA crews will commence training approximately 14 days after ISL. The ISL arbitration panel determines the effective date of the new ISL, and generally will align it with the start of a bid period. However, there is nothing to stop the company from training UAL pilots prior to the ISL effective date.
3) When will sUA crews go to training if the ISL is delayed?
A) Beginning as early as September and slotted into available training slots thereafter. The company is required to start the training of UAL pilots awarded bids under this letter September 15th.
4) When will pay protection kick in for sUA pilots?
A) The next bid period, e.g. if bids are awarded in July, pay protection will begin in August.
5) How will awarded bids be handled once ISL is complete?
A) Except for these SFO 737 awards, awards without a training date will be canceled and re-bid with new seniority number.
-22 UAL Captains and 20 UAL First Officers
-19 CAL Captains and 20 CAL First Officers
These simultaneous vacancies at each subsidiary are expected to be posted prior to the end of July. These vacancies, once awarded, will be pay protected beginning the first bid month after the award and will be seat protected regardless of the ISL. Upon ISL, all other bids on both the s-UAL and s-CAL sides that have not been awarded training dates will be cancelled. Cancelled bids will then be available for bidding by all pilots using their new seniority numbers. Pilots with cancelled bids will have bumping rights. The MOU is attached in its entirety, and an overview is provided below.
OVERVIEW
The MOU is for a SFO 737 base with 22 UAL Captain positions bidding against other UAL pilots. CAL will have 19 Captain positions, and both subsidiaries will have 20 first officer positions each. The bids will be effective immediately and they will be pay and seat protected regardless of ISL. After ISL, the base will become one and subsequent bids are expected. There will be no increase in CAL Captain positions as a result of the SFO 737 base opening – the same numbers from CAL System bid 14-02 will remain. All pilots, UAL and CAL, will bid for training slots in seniority order similar to what CAL does currently, and similar to what was offered the UAL 747-400 crews that were surplused from ORD.
Additionally we resolved, through this MOU, the effect of ISL upon vacancy bids. Anyone who does not have an assigned training date, UAL or CAL, will lose his bid but be allowed bumping rights throughout the system. All open positions as a result of the cancelled 14-02 bids will be rebid by the entire airline using your new seniority numbers.
In the unlikely event the ISL is delayed, the TPA will control cross training and mixing of aircraft, except that United crews will be trained without delay for the 737s scheduled for s-UA delivery. All future bids will be based on the UPA Section 8 vacancy bidding system – there will be no more CAL system bids, regardless.
One item to consider is that the CAL fleet is operating under the CAL computer system, not Unimatic. This means the 737 will have a different dispatch release, different ACARS, different logbook (not electronic) and different flight planning system (Phoenix). The company will provide the necessary instruction within the training footprint for UAL differences in maintenance & dispatch functions, crew scheduling, PBS systems, and any other system changes that differ at that time.
The MOU:
1) Ensures 42 sUA pilots have opportunity to bid SFO 737 positions prior to ISL, minimizes the risk of SFO 737 positions being effectively blocked by either the outcome of the ISL or a delay in its implementation
2) Allows cross-training of sUA 737 pilots by sCO instructors and LCAs in the event of a delay in ISL
3) Allows cross-utilization of all UCH 737s by both sUA and sCO crews
4) Provides pay protection in Bid Period immediately following award
5) Matches sUA training plan with sCO training plan month-for-month
6) Training planned post ISL, with protections if ISL delayed
7) Codifies that new UPA Section 8 bids should be used going forward
8) Codifies award cancelation upon ISL for any bids not holding a training date/TAB
9) Restricts number of sCO positions to current number of 737 positions (i.e., SFO Captain positions will come from other CAL 737 bases, no increase in staffing)
10) Cannot be used by either side in ISL arbitration
11) Reaffirms TPA remains in effect
1) What does TPA allow without this agreement?
A) The TPA extension allows the company to open a sCO SFO 737 base with no sUA slots. The TPA also prevents the company from cross training sUA pilots in Houston, and prevents sUA metal from being flown by sCO crews or vice versa. While the TPA would require the company to train UAL pilots to operate new UAL aircraft, the company could delay introduction of the initial aircraft without significant penalty as late as November as these aircraft come from Boeing without necessary interior upgrades, including the proper seats. This means that the company could delay offering UAL pilots vacancies until after ISL. This letter locks in 42 UAL pilots in SFO ahead of time regardless of the outcome of ISL.
2) When will the sUA crews go to training if the ISL is completed on time?
A) Possibly as early as September. The first sUA crews will commence training approximately 14 days after ISL. The ISL arbitration panel determines the effective date of the new ISL, and generally will align it with the start of a bid period. However, there is nothing to stop the company from training UAL pilots prior to the ISL effective date.
3) When will sUA crews go to training if the ISL is delayed?
A) Beginning as early as September and slotted into available training slots thereafter. The company is required to start the training of UAL pilots awarded bids under this letter September 15th.
4) When will pay protection kick in for sUA pilots?
A) The next bid period, e.g. if bids are awarded in July, pay protection will begin in August.
5) How will awarded bids be handled once ISL is complete?
A) Except for these SFO 737 awards, awards without a training date will be canceled and re-bid with new seniority number.
07-19-2013, 02:40 PM
#140
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 56
I don't think you can blame Pierce. He supposedly was down at COPA working on getting his new career started under the cover of creating CRM/CLR program for COPA.
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