horrido27

Amen to that~

horrido27

Ok, seriously.. that there is some funny Crap!
(no offense, tailwheel~)
LOL

But I do think TW48 still has a way to go before he achieves "Staller" type status.

Just my opinion
Motch

horrido27

Agreed. But which is better (in terms of Career Expectations).. to work for a carrier that is growing their mainline fleet, or to work for a carrier that is shrinking their mainline fleet?

That question will be answered by the 3 Arbitrators.

SkyBus and Independence Air are just two of the carriers that come to mind that had alot of orders on the books but ended up going under. It's not just the orders, but it's what's behind them. Route structure, name brand, service, etc...
Then again, not sure if PanAm or TWA had new aircraft on order when they went under.. God knows, they had the Name Recognition and the route structure.. but not the business plan to make it work.

There has to be something said for an Airline that is constantly regenerating its fleet, and also ordering (and receiving) new Widebody Aircraft.
There also has to be something said for an Airline that has not accepted a new aircraft in 10 years, has canceled it's remaining new aircraft order and forfeited a huge deposit, parked an entire fleet of narrowbody aircraft and had new Widebody aircraft on order.. but as replacements and over 5 years out~

Again, this is nothing against the Legacy United Pilots personally.. it's has to do with your management team (or lack thereof).

I'm hoping that within 3 years we have a fleet of 30 787's, a handful of A350's, a boatload of triple 7's and a couple hundred + of A320/319/321's plus a couple hundred + of 737NG's/Max's.
oh, and throw in that stupid CS100/300 that you know is coming~

Then hopefully we can forgive the BS that went on from 2010 till 2013~

Motch

untied

Even with all the "capacity discipline", UAL was still a much larger airline with a great number of jobs flying desirable WB routes.

In the end longevity, career expectations and status and category will rule the day.

Longevity will help many UAL guys in the lower third of the list, the other two categories can be argued either way with CAL having an advantage with junior guys holding Captain and UAL looking better for senior guys holding more WB Captain seats.

Historically speaking, I don't think you will find a merger where they used a date 3 years after the merger for SLI. All the upgrades after that point are meaningless since it was a combined company with the UAL guys being blocked from bidding airplanes being brought on board.

syd111

Sounds good on the fleet numbers Motch, however I don't think people will forgive or forget so easily.

horrido27

I agree that LUAL brought more jobs and active pilots to the table than CAL.
As far as "desirable WB routes", that will be up to the Arbitrator to decide the weight compared to all the NB international routes that CAL brought.
With regards to LUAL being a "bigger airline".. yes and no. which yard stick? Fleet? Pilots? ASM? Profits? Losses?
The CAL Side MC has done a pretty good job of highlighting what CAL was, is and what they bring to the table. I'll leave it at that.

It will be interesting to see what the snapshot date is. You may be right, they may use the Oct '10 date. At the same time, historically, they have only looked at active pilots and an argument has been made about pilots who have been recalled.
Your MC's Proposed list showed every pilot as having a position, ie the last guy on your list, even though he is furloughed.. is shown at 100%. That is disingenuous.

And yes, Longevity does help the bottom of the LUAL list especially when using a '10 date vs. a '13 date.

Either way, whatever the Arbitrators choose as a date, I can and will live with it. I hope the same can be said for many other posters on this thread!

Motch

Maxepr1

You forgot they also brought 1400 plus guys with out jobs Motch.... Stockholm setting in?

horrido27

You might be right.. but it is a sad (and unhealthy) way to go through life and the rest of your career here if you hate or blame the guy (or gal) you're sitting next too for things beyond both of your control.

I've always believe you can and should forgive, but you should also never forget.

But yes, they are out there.

horrido27

Ah.. no?!
I realize they bring 1400+ guys on furlough. Of Which, a chunk of them are Voluntary Furloughs which in itself is a different category.

I believe that the list should be constructed with Active pilots only.
After which, the furloughs need to be integrated (both sides).

I expect that the UAL Furloughs should be put below the last Active pilot.. whoever he is and whatever side they are from.
HOWEVER..
If that does not happen, my blame will be on the Arbitrators. No one else.

Motch

Maxepr1

Thanks Motch, I thought the blue side had you.... LOL just teasing.....