LAX Pilot

If you didn't read the hearings, basically it was more the CAL side continuing their case of ancillary factors like how they have retirement and UAL doesn't and purported hearsay conversations between Pierce and Smisek, where Pierce claimed that Smisek told him a bunch of stuff about how great CAL was doing and how they could merge with anyone, go it alone, etc.

Not once did they dispute the UAL proposed list.

But this was the most interesting exchange....


Freund: '97, That was -- you had a class date at Continental in 1997?

Pierce: Yes.

Q: That was your first class date at Continental?

A: Actually, there was one before that that was canceled, but ...

Q: Okay. So you know, your date of hire shows August 14, 1989. You actually began at Continental mainline in 1997?

A: I don't know what you're looking at, but my date of hire is October of '89, not August 14.

Q: All right. Okay. But you began flying at Continental mainline in 1997?

A: Yes.


So then I'm wondering on the CAL seniority list why he isn't showing up with the other 1997 hires? How did he manage to get himself put on the list with the 1989 hires, when he didn't start until 1997 at mainline? How come all the other pilots had to wait until their actual class date at CAL?

According to posts made on this forum he bids his 737 flying as if he were a 1997 hire for longevity, but somehow on the overall list he's at 1989 overall seniority?

I just don't get it...

Old UCAL CA

Go hug your wife (or husband), play with your kids or walk the dog or...all three. You'll get through this, seriously. Thousands have before this one.

Staller

On this forum you'll get very little support for anything that holds pierce or the cal MEC accountable. All the cal guys are hoping that everything he does for himself they'll get to ride his coat tails. I can see now why they don't hold their MEC or pierce accountable - they don't hold themselves accountable.

Gupboy

Longevity will get a weighting for ISL, like any other factor. That was overwhelmingly demonstrated on the UAL proposal. A LUAL pilot, depending on where he sits on the LUAL list may have 14 years longevity (hypothetically for example) and be a jr narrow body co-pilot. Therefore his/her longevity will have less weight than a CAL pilot whose 14 years has him/her in a mid seniority Capt seat. It is what it is.

El10

As long as UAL makes a good enough case that longevity should be weighted at above 0%. Nothing is sure until the panel turns over the list.

LAX Pilot

Well Pierce admitted that he was hired in 1989 but it took him until 2007 to be able to hold Captain.

So I guess that firmly established his career expectations. 18 years to be a guppy Captain.

So if you want to play that game about longevity......

Boneman

There are a number of pilots at L-CAL who's DOH is earlier than their start date at CAL because they flew at the wholly owned (at the time) ExpressJet subsidiary. We had a flow-through agreement that stipulated they would keep their DOH, but be placed on the seniority list when they "flowed through." Some Express pilots were "deferred" and would have come over sooner, but still had their slot on the seniority list from when they would have started class (in a pilot-perfect world).

This was not an unusual occurrence in the industry.

Feel free to discuss.

Phrogs4ever

It didn't take him until 2007 to be able to hold Captain, that was his choice. 2005 new hires on the other hand, did hold 737 Captain in 2007. No seats were stolen, no one upgraded "out of seniority", it's just the way it was at CAL before the retirement age changed and the way it is now until the SLI is complete. Then we'll see...

LAX Pilot

So then why be on the overall list as a 1989 hire, but then do your monthly bidding as a 1997 hire??

Let's hear what Eddard Stark has to say....

LAX Pilot

Funny because the list YOUR UNION supplied in 2010 showed everyone on the CAL list and what seats they currently sat in. The MOST JUNIOR CAPTAIN was a 2001 hire.

Just saying......