Rebuttal Hearings - Day 1
06-14-2013, 03:47 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 222
WRONG!
UAL scabs have not been accepted back into ALPA.
Their names are posted on the wall in ops. They are hated.
They don't wear ALPA pins and are treated like lepers.
One more note.....at the end of the 1985 strike, UAL had about 10% scabs. At the end of the 1983 strike, CAL had 100% scabs!
BIG DIFFERENCE!!
I'm not bashing all the good CAL guys, just the scabs.
UAL scabs have not been accepted back into ALPA.
Their names are posted on the wall in ops. They are hated.
They don't wear ALPA pins and are treated like lepers.
One more note.....at the end of the 1985 strike, UAL had about 10% scabs. At the end of the 1983 strike, CAL had 100% scabs!
BIG DIFFERENCE!!
I'm not bashing all the good CAL guys, just the scabs.
06-15-2013, 05:11 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: 787 Capt.
Posts: 644
So guppys ordered long before this merger and upgrades accordingly are a windfall? You are so ridiculous, I'm going to start calling you "Staller Jr."
You and Jsled should get your heads out of the sand, Just ask anyone outside of this merger what their opinions of the two pre merger carriers were. That answer will speak volumes, and the CAL merger committee is proving it once again in the rebuttals with indisputable facts.
You guys should be HAPPPY and thrilled to get straight relative seniority. It will protect your most senior guys and reflect the superior career expectations of the bottom 1/3 of the CAL list.
You and Jsled should get your heads out of the sand, Just ask anyone outside of this merger what their opinions of the two pre merger carriers were. That answer will speak volumes, and the CAL merger committee is proving it once again in the rebuttals with indisputable facts.
You guys should be HAPPPY and thrilled to get straight relative seniority. It will protect your most senior guys and reflect the superior career expectations of the bottom 1/3 of the CAL list.
06-15-2013, 08:28 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 168
And what of the A350s and 787s ordered by UAL before this merger? Will those postions go exclusively to the UAL pilots like the guppy postions have went exclusively to CAL? Nope. Post merger deliveries are post merger deliveries. The positions should be available to both pilots groups. But the contract delay prevented that. That's why there is a snapshot date in merger policy. What was your Status and Category in 2010? Longevity in 2010? That is the question. Get ready. I believe a lot of CAL fellows are not going to like the ISL. 2013 don't mean sheet. Just remember that, and you'll be fine. 
Sled
Sled
06-15-2013, 12:02 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 419
Yeah...look where the growth is (in planes CAL didn't have money to finance)..sUAL former routes and you seem happy about it, real nice. Save your conspiracy theory weak heckles.
06-15-2013, 03:20 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 281
And look where L-UAL widebody metal & crews are flying ... on former L-CAL routes that were once flown by 767-200s that were sold AFTER MCD ... I get the frustration of not being able to bid flying you once had, and yes, I would have preferred a DAL/NWA timeline w/regard to JCBA & ISL, but it didn't happen because BOTH MECs stood their ground ... this BS about the CAL side dragging both sides down is just one more example of how many L-UAL guys can't or won't deal with the decisions your side made ... At MCD, CAL brought airframe deliveries and about 500 un-filled pilot vacancies to the table; UAL brought 1400 unemployed pilots ... I think this fact will be the biggest driver in the arbitrator's final award ... How, who knows, but I think all of the other equities that each side has identified will be less onerous in the final outcome.
06-15-2013, 05:12 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 419
And look where L-UAL widebody metal & crews are flying ... on former L-CAL routes that were once flown by 767-200s that were sold AFTER MCD ... I get the frustration of not being able to bid flying you once had, and yes, I would have preferred a DAL/NWA timeline w/regard to JCBA & ISL, but it didn't happen because BOTH MECs stood their ground ... this BS about the CAL side dragging both sides down is just one more example of how many L-UAL guys can't or won't deal with the decisions your side made ... At MCD, CAL brought airframe deliveries and about 500 un-filled pilot vacancies to the table; UAL brought 1400 unemployed pilots ... I think this fact will be the biggest driver in the arbitrator's final award ... How, who knows, but I think all of the other equities that each side has identified will be less onerous in the final outcome.
JH: req release
JP: I'm surprised, things seem to be progressing nicely
Now and in the future:
UAL pilots will never forget what you call BS. We can move on but won't forget the last 3 years.
06-15-2013, 06:03 PM
#88
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Please remember my name and feel free to blame me for the failings of BOTH unions and MEC's.
Unreal
Motch
06-15-2013, 06:13 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
In this case he spoke for me quite well. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but the "innocent bystander" excuse isn't going to cut it for me. There are a few of your pilots that I hold personally responsible, but your entire pilot group allowed - by inaction - your ALPA leadership to sow a tremendous amount of distrust and disunity. I don't hold every LCAL pilot individually responsible, and I'm sure I'll continue to get along with the vast majority, but I know exactly what happened since the merger announcement and I know why it happened. I also know why it never stopped happening.
06-15-2013, 06:27 PM
#90
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Well Axl, then add me to your list.
Again, I will not look and judge EVERY LUAL pilot as a group that is trying to steal my seniority, or trying to steal my job (putting furloughed pilots who have not been recalled ahead of me is tantamount to stealing, in my opinion [Yet I won't blame them for what their MC proposed]).
Again, I'm lucky enough to have a dozen friends from my old Air Guard Unit who were Legacy UAL. Along with a half a dozen who were Legacy Continental. We've not taken anything personal and a bunch of us wore our different uniforms and marched together at numerous rally's.
You want to lump every CAL Pilot together, go for it. Doesn't bother me.
Motch
PS> I for one am not, nor have been a Jay P supporter. That being said, he was and still is my MEC Chair. His job is to protect and work for the Continental Pilots. Your guy has the same job, just for your side.
ALPA National and their (lack of) leadership holds alot of blame too..
There's alot of blame to go around~
Again, I will not look and judge EVERY LUAL pilot as a group that is trying to steal my seniority, or trying to steal my job (putting furloughed pilots who have not been recalled ahead of me is tantamount to stealing, in my opinion [Yet I won't blame them for what their MC proposed]).
Again, I'm lucky enough to have a dozen friends from my old Air Guard Unit who were Legacy UAL. Along with a half a dozen who were Legacy Continental. We've not taken anything personal and a bunch of us wore our different uniforms and marched together at numerous rally's.
You want to lump every CAL Pilot together, go for it. Doesn't bother me.
Motch
PS> I for one am not, nor have been a Jay P supporter. That being said, he was and still is my MEC Chair. His job is to protect and work for the Continental Pilots. Your guy has the same job, just for your side.
ALPA National and their (lack of) leadership holds alot of blame too..
There's alot of blame to go around~
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