Gupboy

Don't get your hopes up...even your own committees proposal came up far short of that outcome and it can only go downhill from there. You don't really think the outcome will be better than your original proposal? If so, you are setting yourself up for epic dissapointment.

Maxepr1

Yes Staller, you feel you deserve it. Said just like a true United pilot... Why not go out and earn something.....Stir stuff up ? You are the master of it... Looks like your hatred is eating you up... It's actually fun watching you churn out garbage... You use the word brothers, Yeah right.. Speaking poorly of our group, I wonder what their saying about yours as if you didn't know already. Time to get off your pulpit. It looks like your preaching days will soon be over... Good luck to you Brother......Max

EWRflyr

LAX,

I think you are looking at apples-to-oranges regarding dates. Yes, in 2010, the most junior captain hired was most likely a 2001 hire as you state. However, back in 2007 before Age 65 legislation was signed into law, 2005 hires were captains at Continental. By 2008 and 2009 the trend reversed for because of Age 65 and the global recession. All of those captains (and then some) lost their seats. Phrogs was referring to one time frame and you are referring to another. Things change and yes, for the merger SLI purposes, the 2010 seniority lists and staffing are more relevant to the process we are going through today.

gettinbumped

Not saying it will be, because I don't think it will. But it COULD. Katz dorked up the Airways pilot's argument so badly the AWA pilots got a better list than they asked for

gettinbumped

First of all, thank you for just stating the facts instead of joining into this ridiculous rhetoric that BOTH sides are engaged in. Honestly I feel like I'm back to being a camp counselor for a bunch of 9 year olds who can't figure out who to get along in the bunkhouse. It's embarrassing, really...

My personal impression is that the LCAL side scored some fairly large points on day 1 of the rebuttal process. We will see how the cross went as that got pushed to day 2. There was some ridiculous testimony, but there was also some solid testimony that I thought was effective.

Which leads me back to the Pierce seniority issue. Thank you for the clarification of how the flow-through works. Personally, I find it absolutely ridiculous that a LCAL pilot can expect a longevity time based on his DOH a CAL Express. I'm not sure how Pierce can look in the mirror and claim he is an 89 hire when he turned his first mainline wheel in 97. I have a friend who has been a American Eagle for 16 years. Wholly owned by AMR. He has a number over at American and will flow through at some point when they get to his number. He has never flown a mainline airplane, voted on a mainline contract, or worked under mainline work rules. When he DOES flow over to American (assuming that deal survives the merger), he will keep his 97 seniority for pass travel. Sooo... is he an American Airline pilot? Let's say he flowed through 1 day before the merger snapshot. Would he argue that he should be counted as having 16 years of longevity, or 1 day..... since he would be in indoc for crying out loud. If I asked him that question he would laugh. And if I were Pierce, I'd say I was a 1997 hire. It's just about being honest with yourself.

gettinbumped

I wish the LUAL side would do a better job of defending why the Widebody airplanes are more desirable. It seems we've gotten locked up in this argument that "international flying is better than domestic", which LCAL has done an excellent job of rebutting because they do more of it. I don't think we (so far) have done a good job of hammering the point that international flying in and of itself is not what pilots aspire to. I can explain why on any one of my 6 MEX layovers next month if you'd like. It's about pay and schedules. And the best pay and schedules are the long haul; ie: 3 Sydney's a month for 21 days off and 86 hours of pay or so on the highest paying equipment. Hopefully the LUAL side will explain this better, as I found myself frustrated at our presentation on this issue so far.

Hopefully Eischen will remember what his board said regarding Widebody flying in the DAL/NWA arbitration.

syd111

I don't think you will find too many over there being honest with themselves, they are going to grab anything they can. I can't beleive how many ual pilots had no idea about where Pierce stood in all this.

jsled

The merger was announced, approved, and closed in 2010. The snapshot date will be 2010. Bank on it. Cal has as much chance of getting 2013 as Ual had of getting 2008 (737's parked). Neither one makes much sense. Merger policy did change, it added Longevity to the mandatory considerations. But nothing has changed regarding the snapshot date. I'll put my money on Oct 1, 2010. Cal pilots, especially 2005-2008 hires, should brace accordingly

Sled

LeeMat

It's an accomplishment of the greatest proportion, Think about it for a second..."A person who can manage to lie to himself" Its more like a miracle.

LAX Pilot

Another sign of a shrinking airline. So guys that were 2007 lost their Captain seats by 2010 when the merger closed???

Let me guess.... since the merger those guys are Captains again?

The merger sounds like it was a major windfall for CAL.