ChrisJT6

Good point...stone me right after you find one UAL pilot that didn't think JP was stalling the JCBA to improve SLI.

It's unreal that so many CAL pilots don't acknowledge this or are good with this tactic while pilots are furloughed. That is unreal. Many of us won't sacrifice our soul for a job or seniority. I can get along just fine with fellow pilots I don't like or respect but it didn't have to be this way.

AxlF16

Sorry Motch, but you don't have a place on that list. I agree with you about ALPA Nat'ls culpability too.

I don't know if you picked up the nuance of my post... I am not judging or blaming individual pilots (w/the exception of your MEC and officers)... That would be pointless since there is no way for me to know whether any individual supported and/or endorsed the strategy of your leadership. That doesn't erase the past though.

Edit to add.... BTW, it's not the ISL proposal alone that is so offensive to me. It's the past three years of the 'set up' for the ISL proposal that I'll remember.

horrido27

Thanks for the info about your 97 hires. Did not know that some of them held Captain as soon as 2000.

Sounds like your guys in 96/97 went through what our 05 hires did... very quick upgrades by being at the beginning of a hiring wave.
There will always be pilots who take the first upgrade and want/need the money and/or need that forth stripe for ego purposes.
And then again, there will always be pilots who choose QoL (myself included!)

It sounds like training and movement is screwed up on both sides. LUAL pilots might not like reading this (and then again, maybe they will!) but training for Upgrades and aircraft movements are also screwed up on the CAL side. Have friends waiting to go to 73 Capt & 777/787 FO and they can't leave the 756 due to short staffed. Which in turn also means crappier lines for all those below them~

Hopefully come Sept, everyone of both sides can start to make solid plans for their future.

Motch

ChrisJT6

I am not sure how following the ALPA merger policy is stealing but sliming a few hundred DOHs and hiding furloughs...that is okay?

AxlF16

I'm a Jan 97 hire. Jan 20th to be precise... I could've held 727, 737, and 320 Capt in almost all domiciles as early as late '99. I again had 737 and 320 Capt seniority in '05 in most domiciles. Like you, i choose quality of life over pay, power, or ego. Your proposal places me between two '08 hires who were furloughed in 2010.

horrido27

What are your thoughts about the testimony on pg 3288?

DOH is not part of ALPA Merger policy anymore.. Longevity is. However, there's no specific weight to it.

Unfortunately, our two Airlines have one MAJOR mismatch.. Furloughs vs Active Pilots.

As far as the "hiding of furloughs".. there is no changing the current Continental Seniority List. The reality is, on the CAL Side the list involves pilots who were hired off the street, hired through an XJET flow through, pilots hired at others carriers who merged with Continental.

Let me ask you this-
As a CAL Pilot who was never furloughed, and has seen steady movement on the seniority list and who choose to go to CAL over UAL, should I be punished by having a UAL Furlough, who has NOT been recalled to LUAL, has been furloughed twice from LUAL and now is flying on the LCAL side- by having that pilot who is currently junior to me on the 756 list all of a sudden by senior to me on the LUAL Proposed list? (BTW- that "guy" is a friend of mine from the Guard.)

Both lists are representations of what their MC are suppose to do. Get the best deal for their pilots. I have stated that I don't believe where I was put on my LCAL List is Fair or Equitable. But I understand how and why they did it.
I also don't think the LUAL list is Fair or Equitable with regards to where your guys put me.. but I get why they did it. Don't like it, but I get it.

In the end, it's gonna be up to 3 guys to make a list. I won't hold the guys I'm sandwiched between personally responsible. Not their fault.

Motch

horrido27

Axl..
Hence the tough job these Arbitrators have. How to place you, who is 97 hire and can not currently hold Captain on his list.. with a 97 hire from Continental who can hold Capt. On the 756 and 737.

Add to that the problem of where you sit on your seniority list with regards to Relative Seniority (of ACTIVE Pilots). Now, and back in 2010.

There is no easy right answer. Not knowing your name (mine if Peter Matschulat), I can't find you on the CAL list but it would seem it has me senior to you. I don't think that's "fair". (Where does it show you on the LUAL List?)
However, I would also like to know where you were on your list in May '10, Oct '10 and now... 'Jun 13.

I have gone from 99% to 98% to 83%. And I don't want to hear that it's because we've (I've) taken LUAL Flying. The transcripts have shown that both MEC's have committees that have watched the flying on both sides since the merger. Flying has moved around but stayed constant.
What hasn't stayed constant was that LCAL has been understaffed for years, and we have always had a steady stream of retirements.
Add to that new aircraft arrivals and I feel that I have a good career ahead of me~

Motch

ChrisJT6

Everything you say is completely reasonable. But it is not as simple as active v. Furlough...hence the ALPA merger policy. Even Brucia has argued for the placement of furloughs to be blended in the list. My argument is not with your focused view of why 2500 UAL pilots should be stapled below your furloughees but with the clear stalling and not negotiating to further CALs SLI position while we were furloughed period. I've heard all sorts of attempts to justify this tactic but haven't met a UAL pilot that buys a one.

horrido27

We can go back and forth till the end of time with regards to the TA/JCBA.
The reality is, as a CAL Pilot, we had a proposal for our Contract (C08) before the merger. One of the many issues that came up was Paybanding. It was something we had, and something we were planning to go forward with.
Much has been made about that issue. But the fact still remains, it was part of out agreement and also part of your and DAL's agreements. Funny how DAL's new PWA still has it too.
(for the record, I don't agree with the 747 being banded with all the widebodies [except the 76-2's!].. she should have been banded with the A380 [if you really needed a A380 payscale!])

Fingers will be pointed for years to come. If Jay P and my union was soo bad, then why didn't ALPA National step in?

We'll never come to an agreement on this point.. so no reason to continue to bring it up.

All that matters is what the 3 Arbitrators believe when it comes down to the end of the hearings. I have mostly liked what I've heard and read from my side. (Notice, I did NOT say EVERYTHING).
That being said, there's nothing more I or anyone on here can do.

I will try to get back down to DC this week for another SLI hearing. Have no problem meeting up with any LUAL pilots of a beer or bite to eat~
Again, most of us have more in common that we do differences. But again- each side also has it's 5-10% that are out in left field.

it is what it is!
Motch

horrido27

Are you talking about the USAirways/America West merger?