Scott Stoops

The category and class came from DAL et al with a reasonably long history of application, while the application of longevity came from ALPA merger policy as it was modified after Nicolau and is UAL's attempt to address longevity as a tenet of the policy. Those two were applied at a 50% weight in the computer modeling. Career expectations, if I understand it correctly based on reading every word from all sessions and the proposal, was used to protect the Jumbo's (their term, not mine) at each airline for a period of 5 years.

Scott

Coto Pilot

Career expectations? Just saw an e-mail from a guy on the United list, was going to retire as number 2 on the list and under the United proposal won't make it below 300.

Scott Stoops

Yep, I get it. For many, it is much, much worse than that example. In many cases, it takes the pilot out of senior WB Captain to not even holding it...

I am in no way supporting the proposed list. I have, however, read every word that has been released, and that is how I believe the list was created. That's all.

Scott

Phrogs4ever

Puh-leeze, fellas. I didn't say that the snapshot isn't valid, I was pointing out that it's disingenuous to imply that a 2005 hire is only losing 4% seniority with this proposal when he'd actually be losing much more. And as far as whipsaw, how much hiring was UAL doing in December 2007? Right. Without explaining it in too much detail yet again, CAL picked up right where we left off before the five year black hole, and so did you. We were hiring briskly and receiving new aircraft every month, and you, well, were not. Add to that the new UPA, changes to FAA duty and crew rest rules, continued retirements, continued receiving 737s, and started staffing for the 787, then yes, I have seen a 10% increase in seniority over the last three years that had absolutely nothing to do with you.

jsled

The last three years were OUR years. OUR meaning s-ual and s-cal. OUR money paid for those firm orders of 737s that are flying out of OUR bases. OUR money will pay for the 787s and 350s as well. You state that the snapshot is valid, then you go on to explain why it shouldn't apply. Which is it? Should you get to keep ALL the gains you made between MAD and SLI? Or is a snapshot date valid?

Sled

gettinbumped

I'm sorry but you aren't going to get credit for that 10%, nor should you. There is no precedent for gaining seniority on the final list after the merger snapshot is taken, and for good reason. If that was allowed to happen, every merger between ALPA carriers would see delay tactics used by one side or the other to stretch out the seniority list at the detriment of a good contract (sound familiar). United has been parking 757's and their replacement aircraft are ones that L-UAL pilots can't fly until this list is done.... which will be AFTER the replacements arrive on the property.

Don't feel too badly, though. You still got a "windfall". L-CAL has been rapidly filling Captain seats with pilots that wouldn't have any chance of holding them with a combined list. Those pilots will not be flushed, so they will continue to have those seats out of seniority for years to come.

If you have a complaint about where the L-UAL proposed list places you based on the snapshot date, I can respect that. But you aren't being "robbed" your 10% because the snapshot date was used appropriately

UalHvy

My question is how you think that a guy that has been here 10 years longer than you should be junior to you?

tmac3333

I'll put up $10 against you Sunvox. So, if you are wrong, I get $1,000 back. Let's bet, I like these odds.

Probe

My opinion has always been similar to what Sunvox has been saying, because it was used in DAL/NW with great success and minimal legal stupidity afterword.

How much longevity weighting will be applied? I am not sure on that one.

I think the only group of pilots that are going to be ^%$ssed off forever are the 05-08 l-CAL hires. No matter what the SLI outcome, their movement up the food chain is going to be slowed dramatically.

Scott Stoops

Then you have no idea how angry the 1437 from the LUAL side are. No idea. Arguably with cause...

Scott