UAL proposed list online
05-15-2013, 04:09 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 152
I don't see either list being approved by the arbitration board.
What I do see is a lot of LUAL guys coming off as entitled and deserving. Well, this is not the UAL of 2000 that's for sure. Even then the airline was on it's downward spiral.
Glad I picked CAL!!!
What I do see is a lot of LUAL guys coming off as entitled and deserving. Well, this is not the UAL of 2000 that's for sure. Even then the airline was on it's downward spiral.
Glad I picked CAL!!!
Last edited by routemap; 05-15-2013 at 04:26 PM.
05-15-2013, 04:10 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 419
Probably close to that, but from what I see, with this list I'd probably lose the CA seat I've been in for almost seven years............... Since I plan (ned) to be out of here in the next 3-4 years, a major paycut back to the right seat would quash that in a hurry.......................
05-15-2013, 04:21 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
This is not even close to relative seniority. A pilot goes from greater than 100% (furloughed) to 75% is relative??? Ok. Is this the part where I am supposed to start spewing:
"UAL should be embarrassed by this proposal!"
"Where's the UAL outrage!"
"You're just a scab airline!"
"...bunch of snot nosed pilots who were still diapers when I was flying!"
"Longevity!"
"ALPA merger policy!"
"Burn it down if I don't get my way!"
"We have real widebodies!"
"We are a real international airline!"
"I was told at a dinner fifteen years ago that I would retire as a 747 Captain and I am entitled to that expectation! (Please ignore the realities of the last decade.)"
"But we were right sized!"
"We have a better cafeteria in our training center!"
"We don't wear hats!"
"We had better crew bases!"
"We had aircraft on order!"
"Our stripes look better!"
"I have a minor in brain surgery!"
"I can't retire #1 if the pilot ahead of me is younger than I am!"
"You were going to go bankrupt without us!"
Whatever. I've heard it all before. The l-ual team did what they were supposed to do. I'm certainly not offended (even though I would lose 13% seniority), and won't blow a head gasket over a seniority integration PROPOSAL! This whole process is smoke and mirrors with convenient semantics thrown in. It's too bad that the whole seniority list integration is being fought over battle fields that have nothing to do with pilot seniority. I've already stated, I am prepared to live the results no matter what. Are you?
"UAL should be embarrassed by this proposal!"
"Where's the UAL outrage!"
"You're just a scab airline!"
"...bunch of snot nosed pilots who were still diapers when I was flying!"
"Longevity!"
"ALPA merger policy!"
"Burn it down if I don't get my way!"
"We have real widebodies!"
"We are a real international airline!"
"I was told at a dinner fifteen years ago that I would retire as a 747 Captain and I am entitled to that expectation! (Please ignore the realities of the last decade.)"
"But we were right sized!"
"We have a better cafeteria in our training center!"
"We don't wear hats!"
"We had better crew bases!"
"We had aircraft on order!"
"Our stripes look better!"
"I have a minor in brain surgery!"
"I can't retire #1 if the pilot ahead of me is younger than I am!"
"You were going to go bankrupt without us!"
Whatever. I've heard it all before. The l-ual team did what they were supposed to do. I'm certainly not offended (even though I would lose 13% seniority), and won't blow a head gasket over a seniority integration PROPOSAL! This whole process is smoke and mirrors with convenient semantics thrown in. It's too bad that the whole seniority list integration is being fought over battle fields that have nothing to do with pilot seniority. I've already stated, I am prepared to live the results no matter what. Are you?
Sled
05-15-2013, 04:22 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
The UAL proposal is far removed, IMHO, from the Pinnacle final award where the status/category groups were arranged by straight DOH.
05-15-2013, 04:24 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
I am at 66 percent hired in 2005, with this list I would expect to have furloughed pilots senior to me.
My question is where is this furloughed pilot now??? Right now this person is unemployed!
This pilot will come off the street and be placed at 66 percent right now. Hmm I just don't see that happening.
Something else I don't see is LUAL accepting the arbitration award. Way too much of an entitlement attitude over there. Maybe it stems from the days LUAL looked down at LCAL, well it is 2013 now and not 2000.
My question is where is this furloughed pilot now??? Right now this person is unemployed!
This pilot will come off the street and be placed at 66 percent right now. Hmm I just don't see that happening.
Something else I don't see is LUAL accepting the arbitration award. Way too much of an entitlement attitude over there. Maybe it stems from the days LUAL looked down at LCAL, well it is 2013 now and not 2000.
Sled
05-15-2013, 04:45 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
Oh yeah...the UAL proposal is as CRAZY as the CAL proposal. Only instead of stapling 37% of the CAL list below all UAL pilots, the UAL proposal slots....
CAL 2001 hires with UAL 1998 hires
CAL 2005 hires with UAL 1998 hires
yep...those UAL boys are smoking crack!!
CAL 2001 hires with UAL 1998 hires
CAL 2005 hires with UAL 1998 hires
yep...those UAL boys are smoking crack!!
05-15-2013, 04:52 PM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 63
I think the general message of the UAL proposal is good. I would keep more seniority with the CAL proposal, but I can't have all my Halloween candy in one night, now can I?
Can't we just get this BS done? All the old guys are leaving soon..
Can't we just get this BS done? All the old guys are leaving soon..
05-15-2013, 04:59 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Some folks on here really, truly make me laugh. We have an "Entitlement Attitude"?
UAL proposed a computer based methodology that awards pilots a numerical score based on Category and Class, and Longevity. We then take said numbers and create a list based not on emotion, DOH, or some vague sense of who had better career expectations and the resulting list shows how WE feel entitled?? I'm sorry, but I see UAL as behaving logically, methodically, and in good faith. I see the CAL side in hysterics thinking that their fast moving career has been wrecked by the merger and the SLI.
I can tell you first hand that aside from the dozen or two UAL pilots on APC the vast majority of UAL line pilots have no idea what is going on and could care less because they know they will never have any input and the result will be what it is. To make statements that impugn the entire UAL pilot group as feeling out of touch, entitled, or any other such slander only shows how emotionally distraught some folks have become. I hope those folks from either UAL or CAL who have personalized this issue online will behave better when they meet on the line.
I'll say it again; I'll bet 100:1 the board is going to use the list exactly as proposed by UAL, and I'll be the first to come online in September and "eat crow" if I'm wrong.
Did anyone else notice how Arbitrator Eischen asked if the computer program used to build the UAL list could be made available to the board? And, let's not forget when he specifically asked Katz for a "stip" (stipulation) that no matter where the 7-B pilots ended up the CAL MEC would accept the boards decision.
UAL proposed a computer based methodology that awards pilots a numerical score based on Category and Class, and Longevity. We then take said numbers and create a list based not on emotion, DOH, or some vague sense of who had better career expectations and the resulting list shows how WE feel entitled?? I'm sorry, but I see UAL as behaving logically, methodically, and in good faith. I see the CAL side in hysterics thinking that their fast moving career has been wrecked by the merger and the SLI.
I can tell you first hand that aside from the dozen or two UAL pilots on APC the vast majority of UAL line pilots have no idea what is going on and could care less because they know they will never have any input and the result will be what it is. To make statements that impugn the entire UAL pilot group as feeling out of touch, entitled, or any other such slander only shows how emotionally distraught some folks have become. I hope those folks from either UAL or CAL who have personalized this issue online will behave better when they meet on the line.
I'll say it again; I'll bet 100:1 the board is going to use the list exactly as proposed by UAL, and I'll be the first to come online in September and "eat crow" if I'm wrong.
Did anyone else notice how Arbitrator Eischen asked if the computer program used to build the UAL list could be made available to the board? And, let's not forget when he specifically asked Katz for a "stip" (stipulation) that no matter where the 7-B pilots ended up the CAL MEC would accept the boards decision.
Last edited by Sunvox; 05-15-2013 at 05:29 PM.
05-15-2013, 05:10 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
You lose 4% relative seniority and the list is a joke.
But, but, but Mr Arbitrator I'm a Captain. Did you hear me!! I'm a Captain.
Dude, you had 5 years longevity at CN date and you're "stovepiped" seniority makes you a NBFO. The fact that you like to be a junior Captain is irrelevant to the arbitrators.
Last edited by Sunvox; 05-15-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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