SpecialTracking

Hoss,

Wadr, our career isn't over yet. Give it time.

jsled

The UAL proposal is 50% Status and Category. 50% Longevity. They constructed 2 lists, each pilot was scored, then the hybrid list was constructed based on that score. Furloughed pilots had a "furloughed" Status and Category, but they did score on the Longevity list, and thus were not stapled. I think it is a fair list, although many of my sUAL coworkers do not. I don't believe it will be the final result, but it will be close. My bet is the panel will adopt a similar methodology and tweek the Categories, which is exactly what happened in the DAL/NWA SLI. In any case, I don't beleive the panel will adopt the "one for you, one for me" ratio that staples 15 year, never been furloughed UAL pilots below ALL CAL pilots. What a Joke. JMO.

Sled

PS. I am slotted with 1998 CAL hires on this proposal. I figure worse case, I slide down to the 2001 hires....still ahead of the cocky 2005-2008 guys. Time will tell.

Airhoss

So you're saying there's a chance at getting gang raped? YEAH!!

HotPot

Lucky for me I have all the the RAT I can eat in China ,)

I feel we were to "fair" in this proposal.

CALFO

I think the major issue that most CAL pilots have how the UAL list was conceived is that the relative seniority that it shows post merger is not the same type of relative seniority that it shows pre-merger. The pre-merger seniority number is based on active, employed pilots. The post merger seniority number is based on adding over 1,200 pilots that did not hold a position as of 2010. That skews the data. So to say that a pilot's relative seniority hasn't changed is simply not accurate.

That's the perspective from this side.

SpecialTracking

Lordy no son. There is always a chance you could still retire in the top 100!

jsled

The list is not based on relative seniority at all. It was built on Status and Category + Longevity. The % seniority is there for information only. And anyway, CAL had furloughees that did not hold a position in 2010. Yet somehow they go ahead of 37% of the UAL list on the CAL proposal. Longevity is a consideration in ALPA Merger Policy, and yes, even furloughees have longevity. Some have a lot! I suspect from the posts I am reading that CAL pilots want to measure their relative seniority from May 2013. That is 3 years post merger. Sorry, that ain't how it works.

Sled

SpecialTracking

Did those furloughees have longevity?

SpecialTracking

That could prove to be true.

routemap

Windfall was taken out, but doesn't mean you can have one. D. Katz, talked about that early in the hearings.

This is not relative seniority. The furloughed pilots are treated as active pilots.

The snapshot for this ISL proposal is in the year 2010. In past arbitration awards, several snapshots have been presented and several have been used. There is no one magical snapshot. Look for more on this.

Historically furloughs have not done well in awards. The vast majority of these involuntary furloughs have no recall letters and very minimal career expectations. Minimal enough to seek jobs at other airlines and give up your seniority at UAL.