Pure Entertainment. My SLI SWAG.
03-18-2013, 01:46 PM
#61
I'd rather be hunting
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 91
Well there we have it. I guess there no arguing with someone who has been to law school class. Did you fly F18s as well? Did you go to Canoe U as well? My God I am so impressed, NOT!
Fortunately for us on the sCAL side you will not be making the arguments for us.
Fortunately for us on the sCAL side you will not be making the arguments for us.
03-18-2013, 02:15 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 152
I guess the recurring talking point coming from the CAL side is the DOH of their junior Captains. I think for them its a great strategy to just hammer this one point. I learned in law school class, if you don't have a strong argument, find one point to your advantage, and hammer it. Sort of like OJ's attorney hammering "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit" Even though OJ intentionally made it look difficult to put his own glove on.
This is very misleading, and I think irrelevant for SLI for these reasons.
First of all, most of these junior Captains were awarded their bids after the merger happened. That flying growth is a result of the merger, and just because CAL management chose the CAL side over the UAL pilots is not relevant.
Secondly, we have 1995 hires who have been Captains for 14 years now. Making a 2006 hire the same seniority because they both hold a seat doesn't work. A UAL 1995 hire will be a 747 or 777 Captain in 10 years. Not so much a 2006 CAL hire. More like 20+ years. Not with only 22 airplanes. Also, just because more senior FOs at CAL have not bid Captain when they could have, does not create a long lasting career expectation for the entire pilot group. It is also a career expectation that a CAL pilot will not upgrade and sit in the right seat of an airplane for 15+ years as many of my friends have done. If they had taken the upgrades, we wouldn't have any CAL pilots junior to 1994 in the left seat of an airplane.
So I think its a great strategy to point out the false "trajectory" on the CAL side post merger, and I love the idea of hammering the DOH for the junior 757 Capt calling him a "widebody" Captain.
It looks very organized and I hear everyone with the same message.
I just think that its a weak case and when all the facts are out there, it isn't going to mean anything.
This isn't the OJ jury deciding SLI, these people are actually intelligent. When presented with facts, they will make a fair decision to both groups, and yes, that might mean someone who is now on furlough who was hired in 1999 (who might have 7 years of active time) being placed senior to someone hired in 2006. It certainly could happen with all the facts being presented.
Its just too bad that the CAL side didn't let a 777 Captain bid go to the bottom guy on the list, so you could all argue that you can all hold 777 Captain and that should somehow affect SLI.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.....
This is very misleading, and I think irrelevant for SLI for these reasons.
First of all, most of these junior Captains were awarded their bids after the merger happened. That flying growth is a result of the merger, and just because CAL management chose the CAL side over the UAL pilots is not relevant.
Secondly, we have 1995 hires who have been Captains for 14 years now. Making a 2006 hire the same seniority because they both hold a seat doesn't work. A UAL 1995 hire will be a 747 or 777 Captain in 10 years. Not so much a 2006 CAL hire. More like 20+ years. Not with only 22 airplanes. Also, just because more senior FOs at CAL have not bid Captain when they could have, does not create a long lasting career expectation for the entire pilot group. It is also a career expectation that a CAL pilot will not upgrade and sit in the right seat of an airplane for 15+ years as many of my friends have done. If they had taken the upgrades, we wouldn't have any CAL pilots junior to 1994 in the left seat of an airplane.
So I think its a great strategy to point out the false "trajectory" on the CAL side post merger, and I love the idea of hammering the DOH for the junior 757 Capt calling him a "widebody" Captain.
It looks very organized and I hear everyone with the same message.
I just think that its a weak case and when all the facts are out there, it isn't going to mean anything.
This isn't the OJ jury deciding SLI, these people are actually intelligent. When presented with facts, they will make a fair decision to both groups, and yes, that might mean someone who is now on furlough who was hired in 1999 (who might have 7 years of active time) being placed senior to someone hired in 2006. It certainly could happen with all the facts being presented.
Its just too bad that the CAL side didn't let a 777 Captain bid go to the bottom guy on the list, so you could all argue that you can all hold 777 Captain and that should somehow affect SLI.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.....
I have been at LCAL for almost eight years. If anything, I am surprised I couldn't hold captain earlier. But we, like all the other major airlines, went through a capacity reduction phase.
We have many more solid arguments.
I'm afraid LCAL would be hiring regardless of this merger. I know you don't want to hear that but it is a fact.
It really does boil down to luck. United had terrible managers the demise of the company was put into motion well over a decade ago. The furloughed pilots have paid the price for this and have been unlucky in their career. Sorry but I don't want to make up for your lost career expectations at my expense.
03-18-2013, 04:09 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
Sorry but I don't want to make up for your lost career expectations at my expense.
Period end of story. And all arguing about it or statement of opinion here on APC is nothing more than mental masturbation. And it'll accomplish nothing other than maybe to make you feel better for the moment.
Carry on.
03-18-2013, 07:47 PM
#66
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
03-19-2013, 08:13 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Can I get a "Hallalujah!!"
Thanks!
03-19-2013, 02:29 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B777
Posts: 586
"Hallalujah!!"
....and what is so wrong with attending Canoe "U" and flying Hornets? I have run into a bunch of CAL guys who have ZERO college and basically fell into a CAL slot via Express. Not sure why you down a guy who is a Lawyer (I started looking into Law School myself and had a full ride sponsorship) each to his own.
None of us have any control over this.
....and what is so wrong with attending Canoe "U" and flying Hornets? I have run into a bunch of CAL guys who have ZERO college and basically fell into a CAL slot via Express. Not sure why you down a guy who is a Lawyer (I started looking into Law School myself and had a full ride sponsorship) each to his own.
None of us have any control over this.
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