‘Cliffnotes’ version of JCBA positives?
01-16-2013, 01:58 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
It is the win/win position of the stalwart NO voter... with a sense that the JCBA would pass, the NO voters played the hard core, rabid, insolent, bravado bleeding unionist that were willing to fall on their swords.... (despite no responsible plan) and now that the JCBA has passed they shoot one liners of "told you so", "I voted No", "we culda had more" and "my balls are bigger"...... 
"Yeah, well that's like, your opinion man....." (Name that movie....its so easy its sophomoric)
But to your post Sir,
I think you're pretty darn sanctimonious yourself so you might want to consider your condescending tone before pointing the dirty digit.
There were plenty of valid reasons to vote no and they were all hashed out at length. There was also a 99 percent strike vote. Only time will tell what the company really intends to do with scope and the loopholes throughout the contract. And, we've all got front row seats, especially those on reserve.
01-16-2013, 04:24 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
"Yeah, well that's like, your opinion man....." (Name that movie....its so easy its sophomoric)
But to your post Sir,
I think you're pretty darn sanctimonious yourself so you might want to consider your condescending tone before pointing the dirty digit.
There were plenty of valid reasons to vote no and they were all hashed out at length. There was also a 99 percent strike vote. Only time will tell what the company really intends to do with scope and the loopholes throughout the contract. And, we've all got front row seats, especially those on reserve.
But to your post Sir,
I think you're pretty darn sanctimonious yourself so you might want to consider your condescending tone before pointing the dirty digit.
There were plenty of valid reasons to vote no and they were all hashed out at length. There was also a 99 percent strike vote. Only time will tell what the company really intends to do with scope and the loopholes throughout the contract. And, we've all got front row seats, especially those on reserve.
The reasons to vote NO are based upon subjective personal opinions of what an airline pilot should be paid. It had to do with the desire to walk thru the terminal and snicker at the DAL pilots cause +$1.....
'We are our own worst enemy' has been said about pilots for years.....
People trade their votes for a sense of identity. They are buying a feel good brand that comforts.... To the NO voters credit they were staying true to the profession.... what it was and what it should be.... but never will be....
The yes voters were bottom line guys looking at a business choice. No different than a Project Manager or Field Commander....
The point... is... the vote is over... the Yes voters saved the No voters from the reality of the 'free market' and Wall St..... There was hardly any precedence that indicated that a NO vote was going to yield better results. The NO voters had zero convincing argument.
There is a hard core, real world that will only tolerate so much of labor insolence... The tough guys at Comair went on strike.. where are they now..? the gleeful decimation of the legacy contracts after 9/11... look outside the profession at the real economy... we weren't going to do better...
Last edited by Snarge; 01-16-2013 at 04:36 PM.
01-17-2013, 08:53 AM
#44
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
01-17-2013, 09:40 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
The reasons to vote NO are based upon subjective personal opinions of what an airline pilot should be paid. It had to do with the desire to walk thru the terminal and snicker at the DAL pilots cause +$1.....
We are our own worst enemy' has been said about pilots for years.....
People trade their votes for a sense of identity. They are buying a feel good brand that comforts.... To the NO voters credit they were staying true to the profession.... what it was and what it should be.... but never will be....
The yes voters were bottom line guys looking at a business choice. No different than a Project Manager or Field Commander....
The point... is... the vote is over... the Yes voters saved the No voters from the reality of the 'free market' and Wall St..... There was hardly any precedence that indicated that a NO vote was going to yield better results. The NO voters had zero convincing argument.
There is a hard core, real world that will only tolerate so much of labor insolence... The tough guys at Comair went on strike.. where are they now..? the gleeful decimation of the legacy contracts after 9/11... look outside the profession at the real economy... we weren't going to do better...
We are our own worst enemy' has been said about pilots for years.....
People trade their votes for a sense of identity. They are buying a feel good brand that comforts.... To the NO voters credit they were staying true to the profession.... what it was and what it should be.... but never will be....
The yes voters were bottom line guys looking at a business choice. No different than a Project Manager or Field Commander....
The point... is... the vote is over... the Yes voters saved the No voters from the reality of the 'free market' and Wall St..... There was hardly any precedence that indicated that a NO vote was going to yield better results. The NO voters had zero convincing argument.
There is a hard core, real world that will only tolerate so much of labor insolence... The tough guys at Comair went on strike.. where are they now..? the gleeful decimation of the legacy contracts after 9/11... look outside the profession at the real economy... we weren't going to do better...
Yo Snarge,
Comparing us to Comair? Really?
Let's just agree to disagree, since I find many of your proofs faulty and your characterizations of no voters inaccurate. I will be glad to hoist a frosty with you on an overnight however. Well, provided you're not from the class of 83 or 85.
I'm tired of the yes/no BS and ready to move ahead with this sub standard agreement. I'm going to put my energy into identifying the gotchas and sharpening my arrows for the new crop of schedulers who have been calling me lately. Trust me on this, the level of disdain and contempt that I hear on the other end of the phone is completely foreign to me. I can only assume that these are CAL folks, or new hires being indoctrinated in how to abuse pilots. Its like when Lieutenant Dan yelled at Forrest, "Get down! Shut up!" I just laugh and take the assignment and get their name. I've never been given crap from schedulers at UAL. This is a whole new ballgame! It's that damn UAL culture thing....again.
I'm going to do my best to enforce the contract and will encourage those that I fly with to do the same. I will fly the FOM. No waivers, no favors till age 65. Little victories I know, but I'm tired of yellow rain.
Last edited by oldmako; 01-17-2013 at 10:11 AM.
01-17-2013, 10:25 AM
#46
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Gosh thanks !!!
Unbelievably uniformed opinion and yet another reason why our career prospects are in the toilet. Fear of the unknown has never been a good reason to vote Yes on a sub-standard contract Snargey.
Our careers have been destroyed by this line of thinking and a complete lack of intestinal fortitude.
Sleep tight knowing that you saved all of us ignorant No voters from what surely was complete doom. Gag.
That being said, like Mako, it is what it is and I'll be looking forward from now on. Make no mistake though, you yes voters didn't save us from anything but perhaps a much better contract. Nice job !!
01-17-2013, 11:15 AM
#47
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Come to think of it, the last faction that went around pontificating the fact that "They saved us (the pilot group)" happened to be the illustrious SCAB's attempting to <puke>"justify"<puke> their limp-actions.
Snarge, let's step back and quit using that phrase. It's been used, and it's extremely unbecoming as we move >>>>>forward>>>>>
01-17-2013, 11:35 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,576
[QUOTE=SoCalGuy;1332778]^^^ Well said/put ^^^
Come to think of it, the last faction that went around pontificating the fact that "They saved us (the pilot group)" happened to be the illustrious SCAB's attempting to <puke>"justify"<puke> their limp-actions.
[QUOTE]
Exactly what I was thinking.
"This sounds so familiar!"
Come to think of it, the last faction that went around pontificating the fact that "They saved us (the pilot group)" happened to be the illustrious SCAB's attempting to <puke>"justify"<puke> their limp-actions.
[QUOTE]
Exactly what I was thinking.
"This sounds so familiar!"
01-17-2013, 01:00 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,871
Yo Snarge,
Comparing us to Comair? Really?
Let's just agree to disagree, since I find many of your proofs faulty and your characterizations of no voters inaccurate. I will be glad to hoist a frosty with you on an overnight however. Well, provided you're not from the class of 83 or 85.
I'm tired of the yes/no BS and ready to move ahead with this sub standard agreement. I'm going to put my energy into identifying the gotchas and sharpening my arrows for the new crop of schedulers who have been calling me lately. Trust me on this, the level of disdain and contempt that I hear on the other end of the phone is completely foreign to me. I can only assume that these are CAL folks, or new hires being indoctrinated in how to abuse pilots. Its like when Lieutenant Dan yelled at Forrest, "Get down! Shut up!" I just laugh and take the assignment and get their name. I've never been given crap from schedulers at UAL. This is a whole new ballgame! It's that damn UAL culture thing....again.
I'm going to do my best to enforce the contract and will encourage those that I fly with to do the same. I will fly the FOM. No waivers, no favors till age 65. Little victories I know, but I'm tired of yellow rain.
Comparing us to Comair? Really?
Let's just agree to disagree, since I find many of your proofs faulty and your characterizations of no voters inaccurate. I will be glad to hoist a frosty with you on an overnight however. Well, provided you're not from the class of 83 or 85.
I'm tired of the yes/no BS and ready to move ahead with this sub standard agreement. I'm going to put my energy into identifying the gotchas and sharpening my arrows for the new crop of schedulers who have been calling me lately. Trust me on this, the level of disdain and contempt that I hear on the other end of the phone is completely foreign to me. I can only assume that these are CAL folks, or new hires being indoctrinated in how to abuse pilots. Its like when Lieutenant Dan yelled at Forrest, "Get down! Shut up!" I just laugh and take the assignment and get their name. I've never been given crap from schedulers at UAL. This is a whole new ballgame! It's that damn UAL culture thing....again.
I'm going to do my best to enforce the contract and will encourage those that I fly with to do the same. I will fly the FOM. No waivers, no favors till age 65. Little victories I know, but I'm tired of yellow rain.
You're right, it IS a whole new ballgame and the bare bones, low-cost (a la ex-PE Fred Abbott) mentality is alive and well. The ONLY thing that produces change eventually is the word "NO". Obviously many people here don't get that.
01-17-2013, 01:11 PM
#50
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
Using that logic we should always vote no. By voting no we would have got a "better" contract at some point in the future. Even if they wanted to pay us all $500 per hour, we vote no and go back for more. Also, since management isn't going to honor anything anyway, the better the contract is, the more to vote no because the company is more likely to reneg on the contract.
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