cadetdrivr

I think that's the way that UCH would like it to work if LUAL needs to recall pilots, but I can't find any reference, or ability, for LCAL to "hold" LUAL pilots in the TPA or new contract. Perhaps this will be the subject of one of the early post-contract LOAs?

(If there's a contract reference that I missed --which wouldn't be the first time-- I'd appreciate the section/paragraph for future reference if somebody could point it out.)

APC225

It's not in any agreement that I know of, but that has never stopped CAL, and the CAL MEC has always been quite helpful. I'm sure the UAL MEC might go a different direction although they seem to have had limited success so far (profit shafting, DIY training, Phase training, major procedure changes via bulletin, shift of flying, base openings, etc--they squawked about all of these but here we are doing them all).

Probe

Oh my god, I am being screwed again! Anybody got a number for a good labor lawyer?

Anybody coming back, including me, knows there is a lot of different things that can happen to them. I have read my old UAL contract, and my new one, and still don't know exactly what will by my choices. But I do believe I have lots of choices, as do all returning furloughees to the CAL job offer.

Returning to CAL as a new hire, but with huge LOA 25 and/or UAL pay protections, gives us more choices than being on furlough at United, hopefully not to many will ***** about it too much. They (we) chose to come back. Nobody forced us (me) to do it.

It is a good deal. I am not sure ALPA and the company have even decided how it will all pan out. But is shouldn't be too bad for most of us. If it does turn out bad, it will be our own fault for returning before everything is decided. I won't blame anyone, but me.

cadetdrivr

Hmmm...in this case it's up to the UAL MEC, then.

Neither LCAL nor the helpful CAL MEC can stop a LUAL pilot from resigning from LCAL while retaining full LUAL recall rights. This has already been press-to-test with UCH/LCAL/LUAL and the LUAL pilot won.

Thus, if LUAL recalls there is nothing to stop a LUAL pilot at LCAL from jumping ship. This is why I suspect that a LOA will address this issue and ALPA will horse-trade with UCH the ability to retain a LUAL pilot at LCAL during the interim for some other "get." The cynic in me presumes this was not an accidental oversight of the contract and is something the company and ALPA wanted to deal with after the vote.

APC225

I like it! With that kind of leverage the company may actually have to ask for relief at which point the UAL MEC could leverage that into contract improvements.

kc135driver

Understand the academic discussion, but this is a mute issue.

There will be NO recalls to the UAL side, ever. SLI will take place May-Jun, if there were going to be recalls for summer flying they would have had to spun up the UAL side much earlier.

In as much, I don't think UAL furloughees going to the CAL side should be referred to as "new-hires" anymore. We are not on probation and even though this is not a recall nor a complete ISL, the cake is almost baked. Labeling us as "new-hires" only dilutes our rights under the new JCBA. Don't believe me, just ask if we are entitled to a "career move" and I bet you will hear CAL say no because it isn't intended for "new hires". I've already tried it. Their wrong of course, but it is another battle to fight by ourselves because of misperception.

And don't apologize for anything!

KC

DaMnad

kc135

maybe u can use the "Merge move" loa 3 after the sli (Operational merger)

APC225

I thought this to be the case all long and while I could understand the short term reason (a "recall" is on UAL equip at UAL payrate?) I couldn't understand their long term reasoning (undercutting an SLI point, as you say). I flew with a UAL to LCAL "new hire" wearing LUAL wings as if recalled. I suppose he was understandably confused about his position. If he wanted to make the point he was not recalled he'd be wearing LCAL wings. I realized after a couple of legs that his real point was hello to you and the horse you rode in on.

JMD16

[QUOTE=kc135driver;1322358]Understand the academic discussion, but this is a mute issue.

There will be NO recalls to the UAL side, ever. SLI will take place May-Jun, if there were going to be recalls for summer flying they would have had to spun up the UAL side much earlier. ]

Curious why you believe this and do you see any difference in the voluntary and involuntary furloughed pilots.
I believe there will be recalls of some pilots by spring and/or no later that the completion of the ISL.

JMD16

As a follow up to the above question, this portion of LOA 25 in the new contract.

Transition Hiring and Recall
It is understood by the parties that the rights of the pilots to new hire positions are governed by Section 7 of the TPA until completion of the ISL at which time the Agreement process shall apply to all vacancies and recalls, including the recall of all pilots on voluntary furlough.