Let's stop the retro argument.
12-16-2012, 07:01 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Let's stop the retro argument.
I ran into a CAL pilot in Denver yesterday, and he was livid regarding the "Retro Pay" and couldn't believe that 2/3 of the pilot group had voted to accept the contract so I feel a need to "nip" this argument in the bud.
So here's the question:
If we voted down the TA how much more money would you have gotten as a result of an increased "retro pay" and would that amount have equaled the money you lost during the ensuing months of negotiation?
I don't have time or care for a thorough investigation, but here's my "back of the envelope" calculation. Right now I get $18,000 retro. 6 months of $20 an hour at 74 hours a month is roughly $9000 and 9 months is $13000. So if I vote no because I want more retro I think the company will increase the payment by $225 million to $325 million without taking from other parts of the contract and the NMB will agree with our logic.
Really?
If you don't agree with this then I just need to shut up, but I hope that at least one person out there reads this and stops yelling at me how they only got 25 cents on the dollar and so we all should have voted no,.
I voted no, but this is not a good reason to argue over because voting no would never have changed the percentage payout.
I know many people will disagree; I only hope they will be civil in their response.
Joe Peck
IADFO-756
DOH 4/1/96
So here's the question:
If we voted down the TA how much more money would you have gotten as a result of an increased "retro pay" and would that amount have equaled the money you lost during the ensuing months of negotiation?
I don't have time or care for a thorough investigation, but here's my "back of the envelope" calculation. Right now I get $18,000 retro. 6 months of $20 an hour at 74 hours a month is roughly $9000 and 9 months is $13000. So if I vote no because I want more retro I think the company will increase the payment by $225 million to $325 million without taking from other parts of the contract and the NMB will agree with our logic.
Really?
If you don't agree with this then I just need to shut up, but I hope that at least one person out there reads this and stops yelling at me how they only got 25 cents on the dollar and so we all should have voted no,.
I voted no, but this is not a good reason to argue over because voting no would never have changed the percentage payout.
I know many people will disagree; I only hope they will be civil in their response.
Joe Peck
IADFO-756
DOH 4/1/96
12-16-2012, 07:36 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 430
I ran into a CAL pilot in Denver yesterday, and he was livid regarding the "Retro Pay" and couldn't believe that 2/3 of the pilot group had voted to accept the contract so I feel a need to "nip" this argument in the bud.
So here's the question:
If we voted down the TA how much more money would you have gotten as a result of an increased "retro pay" and would that amount have equaled the money you lost during the ensuing months of negotiation?
I don't have time or care for a thorough investigation, but here's my "back of the envelope" calculation. Right now I get $18,000 retro. 6 months of $20 an hour at 74 hours a month is roughly $9000 and 9 months is $13000. So if I vote no because I want more retro I think the company will increase the payment by $225 million to $325 million without taking from other parts of the contract and the NMB will agree with our logic.
Really?
If you don't agree with this then I just need to shut up, but I hope that at least one person out there reads this and stops yelling at me how they only got 25 cents on the dollar and so we all should have voted no,.
I voted no, but this is not a good reason to argue over because voting no would never have changed the percentage payout.
I know many people will disagree; I only hope they will be civil in their response.
Joe Peck
IADFO-756
DOH 4/1/96
So here's the question:
If we voted down the TA how much more money would you have gotten as a result of an increased "retro pay" and would that amount have equaled the money you lost during the ensuing months of negotiation?
I don't have time or care for a thorough investigation, but here's my "back of the envelope" calculation. Right now I get $18,000 retro. 6 months of $20 an hour at 74 hours a month is roughly $9000 and 9 months is $13000. So if I vote no because I want more retro I think the company will increase the payment by $225 million to $325 million without taking from other parts of the contract and the NMB will agree with our logic.
Really?
If you don't agree with this then I just need to shut up, but I hope that at least one person out there reads this and stops yelling at me how they only got 25 cents on the dollar and so we all should have voted no,.
I voted no, but this is not a good reason to argue over because voting no would never have changed the percentage payout.
I know many people will disagree; I only hope they will be civil in their response.
Joe Peck
IADFO-756
DOH 4/1/96
Life goes on. You can move forward or let it give you heart trouble. Go home and hug your family.
12-17-2012, 04:38 AM
#5
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,576
12-17-2012, 04:54 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Thank-you for the civil and thoughtful answer!
Even if what you say is true my primary point here is that it's just not worth turning red in the face and screaming at your fellow pilots as did the pilot I met in Denver plus I'm not sure it was quite that simple . . .
Ben's seriously wrong.
“ Third question, “ Why do the Railroads always get full retro, but the Airlines never achieve it?” Answer, “Because you guys never demand it”.”
Just complete Bull. The mediator does not support a “full Retro pay” position in our situation for a number of reasons. Ben simply does not understand how and why the JNC negotiated “DAL Retro Pay.” Of course to understand it would mean to accept allocating the DAL Retro Payment as a DAL Retro Pay, and that is not “fair” to the CAL Pilots.
Thank you for considering my responses.
Fraternally,
Rob Hebinck
UAL-ALPA, DEN C33 F/O Representative
[email protected]
720-988-6634
“ Third question, “ Why do the Railroads always get full retro, but the Airlines never achieve it?” Answer, “Because you guys never demand it”.”
Just complete Bull. The mediator does not support a “full Retro pay” position in our situation for a number of reasons. Ben simply does not understand how and why the JNC negotiated “DAL Retro Pay.” Of course to understand it would mean to accept allocating the DAL Retro Payment as a DAL Retro Pay, and that is not “fair” to the CAL Pilots.
Thank you for considering my responses.
Fraternally,
Rob Hebinck
UAL-ALPA, DEN C33 F/O Representative
[email protected]
720-988-6634
12-17-2012, 09:22 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
You just got me angrier.
This is like that guy on popeye telling him, wimpy was it?, telling him he would gladly pay me tuesday for a hamburger today.
Well, I've given Smizek and Co over 175,000 free hamburgers. Guess what; It's Tuesday. I have given and loaned in good faith, only to have this and predecessor management teams steal from me and my family.
I guess since you feel that this pilot group voted this in that somehow this pilot group will pay my family back, is that what you are saying? I don't get it. ALPA told me that retro was a cornerstone of this cba. I believed them too.
I am both disappointed in management and in my union. No more deals for me, no more loans for me the rest of my career. I will fly the contract and do nothing more. The union propaganda can go right in the trash along with the company pravda.
I find that I cannot work hard enough to meet the financial demands placed upon me. I have 2 jobs and my wife also works. This career truly sucks. No matter how hard I work, I never get ahead. I really needed and was depending on my retro check to make things right at least in my home.
12-17-2012, 09:58 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
You didn't nip anything in the bud dude.
You just got me angrier.
This is like that guy on popeye telling him, wimpy was it?, telling him he would gladly pay me tuesday for a hamburger today.
Well, I've given Smizek and Co over 175,000 free hamburgers. Guess what; It's Tuesday. I have given and loaned in good faith, only to have this and predecessor management teams steal from me and my family.
I guess since you feel that this pilot group voted this in that somehow this pilot group will pay my family back, is that what you are saying? I don't get it. ALPA told me that retro was a cornerstone of this cba. I believed them too.
I am both disappointed in management and in my union. No more deals for me, no more loans for me the rest of my career. I will fly the contract and do nothing more. The union propaganda can go right in the trash along with the company pravda.
I find that I cannot work hard enough to meet the financial demands placed upon me. I have 2 jobs and my wife also works. This career truly sucks. No matter how hard I work, I never get ahead. I really needed and was depending on my retro check to make things right at least in my home.
You just got me angrier.
This is like that guy on popeye telling him, wimpy was it?, telling him he would gladly pay me tuesday for a hamburger today.
Well, I've given Smizek and Co over 175,000 free hamburgers. Guess what; It's Tuesday. I have given and loaned in good faith, only to have this and predecessor management teams steal from me and my family.
I guess since you feel that this pilot group voted this in that somehow this pilot group will pay my family back, is that what you are saying? I don't get it. ALPA told me that retro was a cornerstone of this cba. I believed them too.
I am both disappointed in management and in my union. No more deals for me, no more loans for me the rest of my career. I will fly the contract and do nothing more. The union propaganda can go right in the trash along with the company pravda.
I find that I cannot work hard enough to meet the financial demands placed upon me. I have 2 jobs and my wife also works. This career truly sucks. No matter how hard I work, I never get ahead. I really needed and was depending on my retro check to make things right at least in my home.
Your beating a dead horse here. God forbid the SLI even slightly favors the lcal group. Lawsuits galore!
12-17-2012, 12:01 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
You are basing this statement on what one MEC member said. Not one other MEC member, MC, JNC member, or SME has heard this said by the NMB. Does "we just need to ask for it" pass your sniff test? Don't you think we DID ask for it? I urge you to join the negotiating committee going forward and then YOU can "ask for it". Report back what the NMB tells you
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