For all you yes voters
12-14-2012, 09:04 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 430
"try again"
Certify it to comply with our scope clause weight. "introduce" a "B" model for other people that want it at the origional weight. That would secure all the orders for the company while playing the game.
Pretty simple.
After talking to a lot of fellow UAL guys, it's pretty obvious you have been reading this TA with a simple mind. Just wait until it passes and I'll laugh as your crying, told ya so.
Voted NO
Certify it to comply with our scope clause weight. "introduce" a "B" model for other people that want it at the origional weight. That would secure all the orders for the company while playing the game.
Pretty simple.
After talking to a lot of fellow UAL guys, it's pretty obvious you have been reading this TA with a simple mind. Just wait until it passes and I'll laugh as your crying, told ya so.
Voted NO
12-14-2012, 03:13 PM
#12
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 244
Actually, I read it perfectly well. So which is it, is this the contract that we will have until 2020 that so many "No" voters keep claiming, or are we going to have a new one in place right away in 2017 which will address this issue? Just pick one side or the other so I can debate it.
I'm not the one that tried to make an issue out of a plane that, best case, won't exist until after this contract expires and suggested "and so it begins". By the way, this initial order was made quite some time ago, and firmed up yesterday. If they had some master plan to circumvent the UAL TA Scope clause, don't you think they would have waited until tomorrow to announce this?
I'm not the one that tried to make an issue out of a plane that, best case, won't exist until after this contract expires and suggested "and so it begins". By the way, this initial order was made quite some time ago, and firmed up yesterday. If they had some master plan to circumvent the UAL TA Scope clause, don't you think they would have waited until tomorrow to announce this?
12-14-2012, 04:23 PM
#13
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
You haven't been around this management long enough to see what is going to happen. By opening up to 76 seaters it just paves the wave for the next contract to allow larger airframes. We've seen it many times. You have no idea what Umare in for with Jeff and co. You have also told them that there is zero incentive for them to ever get another contract done in a timely fashion. You struggle for four years to settle on 30 cents on the dollar. Company will do the same thing on the next one and you will vote yes.
We disagree on the scope in this TA. Fine. I have no problem with having that discussion, but the article you posted has absolutely nothing to do with this TA. The airplane, even if its on time, won't even be delivered before this contract expires. And the airplane you are referencing doesn't fit the Scope clause anyway. You were trying to stir the pot with your post, and I'm simply calling you out on it.
As far as full retro, I've not heard one person explain to me what leverage they have magically found to get the NMB to force the company to cough up another BILLION dollars without giving up anything else in the TA. One MEC rep says we simply need to "demand it". Why didn't I think of that???? In the meantime, if it takes a year to get a new TA, full retro goes to $2 Billion. Good. Luck. I get the philosophy of not allowing the company to get away without paying us full retro because it teaches them to do it next time. Under the railway labor act, well.... I hate to tell you, but the deck is stacked against us. Sorry, but that's the landscape you live in. So you can turn down this deal and say you aren't voting yes until you get full retro, and continue to save the company a few billion dollars that could have gone to the pilots. I don't see that as the best choice, so I voted YES.
12-14-2012, 04:49 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
So, so sad. And sorry. Wolf? Tilton? Laugh. Do you forget that CAL began the race to the bottom 30 years ago? May we all draw strength from family, friends, and faith during the next 10 years of this contract under our CAL management. We will need it. Really, my deepest sympathy. I will never later say "I told you so" as that would be just too unkind, but you will see, much too soon.
Last edited by APC225; 12-14-2012 at 05:21 PM.
12-14-2012, 07:29 PM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
So, so sad. And sorry. Wolf? Tilton? Laugh. Do you forget that CAL began the race to the bottom 30 years ago? May we all draw strength from family, friends, and faith during the next 10 years of this contract under our CAL management. We will need it. Really, my deepest sympathy. I will never later say "I told you so" as that would be just too unkind, but you will see, much too soon.
12-14-2012, 07:40 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Honest answer--Lorenzo's legacy is permanent. In fact, as of 10am tomorrow, you're a part of it. It's a done deal. At noon or thereabouts tomorrow we'll have sealed our fate for 10 years. It is what it is. Best of luck to UAL officers who will take over a single MEC and try to do better than CAL has done in dealing with Lorenzo's legacy. You joined this ship and we'll all be in the same boat soon. The time for yes vs no soon will be over. Time to move on together.
12-14-2012, 08:24 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
"Honest answer--Lorenzo's legacy is permanent. In fact, as of 10am tomorrow, you're a part of it. It's a done deal. At noon or thereabouts tomorrow we'll have sealed our fate for 10 years. It is what it is. "
Best comment I've read here about reality at UAL.
Now for those who thought they could stop outsourcing just think what's goingt on at DAL now. They just bought 49% of Virgin Atlantic. Branson may be fun to work for but he is one of the best employee divider in the business. Virgin Atlantic, America, Australia and I believe some Asian outfit.
Dylan's getting old, the times they are changing!
Best comment I've read here about reality at UAL.
Now for those who thought they could stop outsourcing just think what's goingt on at DAL now. They just bought 49% of Virgin Atlantic. Branson may be fun to work for but he is one of the best employee divider in the business. Virgin Atlantic, America, Australia and I believe some Asian outfit.
Dylan's getting old, the times they are changing!
12-15-2012, 06:21 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Dylan's never old! And this is more like "Desolation Row."
The circus is in town
Here comes the blind commissioner
They’ve got him in a trance
Now at midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
The circus is in town
Here comes the blind commissioner
They’ve got him in a trance
Now at midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
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