Magenta Line - Thursday, December 13, 2012
12-13-2012, 12:21 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Magenta Line - Thursday, December 13, 2012
Today is Thursday, December 13, 2012 and we have one item for your review.
Item 1: Message from the Chairman - Eyes Wide Open
By now, everyone has had ample opportunity to dissect the T/A, by reading all the Crews News, by studying the contents of www.unitedpilotagreement.com, by having your questions answered by Fact Team members and Reps in the crew rooms, and hopefully by having had an opportunity to attend one of the Town Halls.
The decision of the MEC whether or not to send the T/A to the pilots was gut wrenching. We were keenly aware of the immense expectations of all of our pilots. However, we needed to balance those expectations with the likelihood of making any significant additional gains to the negotiated T/A. We heard a very somber message from the NMB that implied that they were finished helping us. Without further assistance from the NMB, our ability to gain the leverage needed to secure additional gains was remote at best.
After negotiating for more than two years for our pre-merger section six negotiation and then over two additional years negotiating for our JCBA, I strongly believe that this is the best deal we are going to negotiate. Based on that judgment, I voted to send the T/A to you for your consideration.
So now the decision lies with each of you. I ask you to make this extremely important decision with your eyes wide open. I promise you that no matter what happens, Mr. Smisek, Fred Abbott and Jackson Martin are going to be just fine either way, but how will your family fare if we are stuck working under a concessionary contract for possibly a long time to come?
If you truly believe that voting no will quickly yield a better T/A in round two, I strongly encourage you to vote no. If you do not truly believe that, and you are simply voting no out of anger or frustration, or because you believe the agreement will pass anyway, please rethink that strategy. Vote for what you truly believe is best for you and your family.
That is all for today. Thank you.
Fraternally,
Chairman Captain Jayson Baron
Vice Chairman First Officer Tara Cook
Secretary-Treasurer Captain Tim Boyens
Item 1: Message from the Chairman - Eyes Wide Open
By now, everyone has had ample opportunity to dissect the T/A, by reading all the Crews News, by studying the contents of www.unitedpilotagreement.com, by having your questions answered by Fact Team members and Reps in the crew rooms, and hopefully by having had an opportunity to attend one of the Town Halls.
The decision of the MEC whether or not to send the T/A to the pilots was gut wrenching. We were keenly aware of the immense expectations of all of our pilots. However, we needed to balance those expectations with the likelihood of making any significant additional gains to the negotiated T/A. We heard a very somber message from the NMB that implied that they were finished helping us. Without further assistance from the NMB, our ability to gain the leverage needed to secure additional gains was remote at best.
After negotiating for more than two years for our pre-merger section six negotiation and then over two additional years negotiating for our JCBA, I strongly believe that this is the best deal we are going to negotiate. Based on that judgment, I voted to send the T/A to you for your consideration.
So now the decision lies with each of you. I ask you to make this extremely important decision with your eyes wide open. I promise you that no matter what happens, Mr. Smisek, Fred Abbott and Jackson Martin are going to be just fine either way, but how will your family fare if we are stuck working under a concessionary contract for possibly a long time to come?
If you truly believe that voting no will quickly yield a better T/A in round two, I strongly encourage you to vote no. If you do not truly believe that, and you are simply voting no out of anger or frustration, or because you believe the agreement will pass anyway, please rethink that strategy. Vote for what you truly believe is best for you and your family.
That is all for today. Thank you.
Fraternally,
Chairman Captain Jayson Baron
Vice Chairman First Officer Tara Cook
Secretary-Treasurer Captain Tim Boyens
12-13-2012, 06:03 AM
#3
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
12-13-2012, 06:56 AM
#4
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Pota-toe, Pota-tow, guess its all based on your point of view.
12-13-2012, 07:37 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 194
Today is Thursday, December 13, 2012 and we have one item for your review.
Item 1: Message from the Chairman - Eyes Wide Open
By now, everyone has had ample opportunity to dissect the T/A, by reading all the Crews News, by studying the contents of www.unitedpilotagreement.com, by having your questions answered by Fact Team members and Reps in the crew rooms, and hopefully by having had an opportunity to attend one of the Town Halls.
The decision of the MEC whether or not to send the T/A to the pilots was gut wrenching. We were keenly aware of the immense expectations of all of our pilots. However, we needed to balance those expectations with the likelihood of making any significant additional gains to the negotiated T/A. We heard a very somber message from the NMB that implied that they were finished helping us. Without further assistance from the NMB, our ability to gain the leverage needed to secure additional gains was remote at best.
After negotiating for more than two years for our pre-merger section six negotiation and then over two additional years negotiating for our JCBA, I strongly believe that this is the best deal we are going to negotiate. Based on that judgment, I voted to send the T/A to you for your consideration.
So now the decision lies with each of you. I ask you to make this extremely important decision with your eyes wide open. I promise you that no matter what happens, Mr. Smisek, Fred Abbott and Jackson Martin are going to be just fine either way, but how will your family fare if we are stuck working under a concessionary contract for possibly a long time to come?
If you truly believe that voting no will quickly yield a better T/A in round two, I strongly encourage you to vote no. If you do not truly believe that, and you are simply voting no out of anger or frustration, or because you believe the agreement will pass anyway, please rethink that strategy. Vote for what you truly believe is best for you and your family.
That is all for today. Thank you.
Fraternally,
Chairman Captain Jayson Baron
Vice Chairman First Officer Tara Cook
Secretary-Treasurer Captain Tim Boyens
Item 1: Message from the Chairman - Eyes Wide Open
By now, everyone has had ample opportunity to dissect the T/A, by reading all the Crews News, by studying the contents of www.unitedpilotagreement.com, by having your questions answered by Fact Team members and Reps in the crew rooms, and hopefully by having had an opportunity to attend one of the Town Halls.
The decision of the MEC whether or not to send the T/A to the pilots was gut wrenching. We were keenly aware of the immense expectations of all of our pilots. However, we needed to balance those expectations with the likelihood of making any significant additional gains to the negotiated T/A. We heard a very somber message from the NMB that implied that they were finished helping us. Without further assistance from the NMB, our ability to gain the leverage needed to secure additional gains was remote at best.
After negotiating for more than two years for our pre-merger section six negotiation and then over two additional years negotiating for our JCBA, I strongly believe that this is the best deal we are going to negotiate. Based on that judgment, I voted to send the T/A to you for your consideration.
So now the decision lies with each of you. I ask you to make this extremely important decision with your eyes wide open. I promise you that no matter what happens, Mr. Smisek, Fred Abbott and Jackson Martin are going to be just fine either way, but how will your family fare if we are stuck working under a concessionary contract for possibly a long time to come?
If you truly believe that voting no will quickly yield a better T/A in round two, I strongly encourage you to vote no. If you do not truly believe that, and you are simply voting no out of anger or frustration, or because you believe the agreement will pass anyway, please rethink that strategy. Vote for what you truly believe is best for you and your family.
That is all for today. Thank you.
Fraternally,
Chairman Captain Jayson Baron
Vice Chairman First Officer Tara Cook
Secretary-Treasurer Captain Tim Boyens
Tell me, do you actually believe management (either this one or the next one) won't try to put the fear of god in everyone to vote for the NEXT contract, or the NEXT contract, or even the NEXT contract!!! It's like a broken record. Wake up.
no
12-13-2012, 07:50 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Thanks for not selling the contract using fear tactics!!!
Tell me, do you actually believe management (either this one or the next one) won't try to put the fear of god in everyone to vote for the NEXT contract, or the NEXT contract, or even the NEXT contract!!! It's like a broken record. Wake up.
no
Tell me, do you actually believe management (either this one or the next one) won't try to put the fear of god in everyone to vote for the NEXT contract, or the NEXT contract, or even the NEXT contract!!! It's like a broken record. Wake up.
no
12-13-2012, 08:35 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Let me ask you who constantly stating your no decision something:
Do you think these men have anything to gain by writing this letter and ratification recommendation to you? Many of you act like they have some hidden agenda or something. These men and woman are there, they have heard the issues, the testimonies and the people who are involved and are doing their fiduciary duty by recommending to you a ratification of this TA.
Please do all of us a favor and put your trite comments about fear and sales job aside and do your duty. Consider their counsel, weigh your personal situations and then vote. This is the process of "true unionism," not the personal slander so many of you want to pursue.
Do you think these men have anything to gain by writing this letter and ratification recommendation to you? Many of you act like they have some hidden agenda or something. These men and woman are there, they have heard the issues, the testimonies and the people who are involved and are doing their fiduciary duty by recommending to you a ratification of this TA.
Please do all of us a favor and put your trite comments about fear and sales job aside and do your duty. Consider their counsel, weigh your personal situations and then vote. This is the process of "true unionism," not the personal slander so many of you want to pursue.
12-13-2012, 08:55 AM
#8
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
I keep hearing this "Scared" argument. Of course, it's trotted out to play to our ("yes voters") emotions. There are accusations of "scare tactics", and "selling the TA" every single time a contract is up for vote. Doesn't matter the airline. Somehow, the ALPA reps who bring you the contract are ALWAYS just "selling the deal using scare tactics". Of course, it couldn't be that they have assessed the situation for the past several YEARS, talked to the lawyers, talked to the NMB, talked to the politicians, and talked to the SME's and recognized that we have reached the point of diminishing returns, could it?
There are clearly two very distinct sides to this story: 19 of 26 reps, both MC's, and the entire JNC has digested the TA, been briefed on the current situation, looked around at the world and economy, gotten information from ALPA attorney's, etc, etc and decided that THIS is the deal that we should sign. Voting "No" simply won't get us a better deal in enough time to make it a good business decision. 7 out of 26 reps feel differently. One of whom pointed directly to USAirways flight attendants as an example of how the NMB and the company will immediately come crawling back to us, begging to give us more money. (The USAirways flight attendants, 6 months later, have voted "No" twice, taken their token strike vote, and been effectively parked by the NMB. Yeah.... GREAT argument for voting "NO"!) Another has publicly stated that the NMB commented that the reason we didn't get full retro is simply because we didn't demand it. Boy, I don't know how the other 19 reps, 2 MC's, and the entire NC missed THAT one!!!!
The choice is simple. Believe what the people who have spent the last 3 years living and breathing this TA are telling you, or listen to the other 27% of your elected reps with rather strange arguments (in my opinion... see above) and a bunch of keyboard jockeys who write inaccurate missives without signing their names to them.
For the record. It's not about FEAR. It's about assessing risk. You know, what we do for a living. If you down an airplane because of an inop system, I could lob the same "fear" grenade right at you... but that would be inaccurate wouldn't it?
For the record - 2. When this TA first came out, I was a "No". Then I was a "Yes" based on the risks vs. reward of sending it back. After an exhaustive amount of time reading, listening, viewing, and typing, I've come to the decision that this is actually a very good TA, and I'm proud to vote "YES" on it.
There are clearly two very distinct sides to this story: 19 of 26 reps, both MC's, and the entire JNC has digested the TA, been briefed on the current situation, looked around at the world and economy, gotten information from ALPA attorney's, etc, etc and decided that THIS is the deal that we should sign. Voting "No" simply won't get us a better deal in enough time to make it a good business decision. 7 out of 26 reps feel differently. One of whom pointed directly to USAirways flight attendants as an example of how the NMB and the company will immediately come crawling back to us, begging to give us more money. (The USAirways flight attendants, 6 months later, have voted "No" twice, taken their token strike vote, and been effectively parked by the NMB. Yeah.... GREAT argument for voting "NO"!) Another has publicly stated that the NMB commented that the reason we didn't get full retro is simply because we didn't demand it. Boy, I don't know how the other 19 reps, 2 MC's, and the entire NC missed THAT one!!!!
The choice is simple. Believe what the people who have spent the last 3 years living and breathing this TA are telling you, or listen to the other 27% of your elected reps with rather strange arguments (in my opinion... see above) and a bunch of keyboard jockeys who write inaccurate missives without signing their names to them.
For the record. It's not about FEAR. It's about assessing risk. You know, what we do for a living. If you down an airplane because of an inop system, I could lob the same "fear" grenade right at you... but that would be inaccurate wouldn't it?
For the record - 2. When this TA first came out, I was a "No". Then I was a "Yes" based on the risks vs. reward of sending it back. After an exhaustive amount of time reading, listening, viewing, and typing, I've come to the decision that this is actually a very good TA, and I'm proud to vote "YES" on it.
12-13-2012, 09:33 AM
#9
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
I keep hearing this "Scared" argument. Of course, it's trotted out to play to our ("yes voters") emotions. There are accusations of "scare tactics", and "selling the TA" every single time a contract is up for vote. Doesn't matter the airline. Somehow, the ALPA reps who bring you the contract are ALWAYS just "selling the deal using scare tactics". Of course, it couldn't be that they have assessed the situation for the past several YEARS, talked to the lawyers, talked to the NMB, talked to the politicians, and talked to the SME's and recognized that we have reached the point of diminishing returns, could it?
There are clearly two very distinct sides to this story: 19 of 26 reps, both MC's, and the entire JNC has digested the TA, been briefed on the current situation, looked around at the world and economy, gotten information from ALPA attorney's, etc, etc and decided that THIS is the deal that we should sign. Voting "No" simply won't get us a better deal in enough time to make it a good business decision. 7 out of 26 reps feel differently. One of whom pointed directly to USAirways flight attendants as an example of how the NMB and the company will immediately come crawling back to us, begging to give us more money. (The USAirways flight attendants, 6 months later, have voted "No" twice, taken their token strike vote, and been effectively parked by the NMB. Yeah.... GREAT argument for voting "NO"!) Another has publicly stated that the NMB commented that the reason we didn't get full retro is simply because we didn't demand it. Boy, I don't know how the other 19 reps, 2 MC's, and the entire NC missed THAT one!!!!
The choice is simple. Believe what the people who have spent the last 3 years living and breathing this TA are telling you, or listen to the other 27% of your elected reps with rather strange arguments (in my opinion... see above) and a bunch of keyboard jockeys who write inaccurate missives without signing their names to them.
For the record. It's not about FEAR. It's about assessing risk. You know, what we do for a living. If you down an airplane because of an inop system, I could lob the same "fear" grenade right at you... but that would be inaccurate wouldn't it?
For the record - 2. When this TA first came out, I was a "No". Then I was a "Yes" based on the risks vs. reward of sending it back. After an exhaustive amount of time reading, listening, viewing, and typing, I've come to the decision that this is actually a very good TA, and I'm proud to vote "YES" on it.
There are clearly two very distinct sides to this story: 19 of 26 reps, both MC's, and the entire JNC has digested the TA, been briefed on the current situation, looked around at the world and economy, gotten information from ALPA attorney's, etc, etc and decided that THIS is the deal that we should sign. Voting "No" simply won't get us a better deal in enough time to make it a good business decision. 7 out of 26 reps feel differently. One of whom pointed directly to USAirways flight attendants as an example of how the NMB and the company will immediately come crawling back to us, begging to give us more money. (The USAirways flight attendants, 6 months later, have voted "No" twice, taken their token strike vote, and been effectively parked by the NMB. Yeah.... GREAT argument for voting "NO"!) Another has publicly stated that the NMB commented that the reason we didn't get full retro is simply because we didn't demand it. Boy, I don't know how the other 19 reps, 2 MC's, and the entire NC missed THAT one!!!!
The choice is simple. Believe what the people who have spent the last 3 years living and breathing this TA are telling you, or listen to the other 27% of your elected reps with rather strange arguments (in my opinion... see above) and a bunch of keyboard jockeys who write inaccurate missives without signing their names to them.
For the record. It's not about FEAR. It's about assessing risk. You know, what we do for a living. If you down an airplane because of an inop system, I could lob the same "fear" grenade right at you... but that would be inaccurate wouldn't it?
For the record - 2. When this TA first came out, I was a "No". Then I was a "Yes" based on the risks vs. reward of sending it back. After an exhaustive amount of time reading, listening, viewing, and typing, I've come to the decision that this is actually a very good TA, and I'm proud to vote "YES" on it.
There are always NO's in the world. The haters are always going to be there.
We will find out who was right on Saturday.
12-13-2012, 09:58 AM
#10
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
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