Great update from IAH reps
12-11-2012, 03:53 PM
#41
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 15
No, absolutely not. That would be what Ben's former airline, USair expected when they were supposed to merge with us, twice. I wonder if he was one of the US guys who wore the "DOH" pin then. Interesting though that this fear is foremost in your thoughts with regard to integrating our seniority lists. I just want a level playing field. I assume you are a junior CAL pilot?
I have absolutely no fear in the integrated seniority list. Whatever is going to happen will and I have no control over that. I am a "junior CAL pilot" by your definition of seven years but the reality of it is that at CAL, I'm not considered junior and can currently hold captain (unless your reference is that of a junior captain). Try not to read too deep into the tone of my posts as there's really no emotion attached. Certain labeling just piques my curiosity, that's why I asked.
Enjoy your beer. Cheers!
12-11-2012, 06:10 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
A320 Captain..
I'm glad you are not Voting YES out of Fear. If you truly believe this is a great TA, or that there is nothing you can do to make it better.. then there is nothing anyone is going to say that will make you change your mind.
I attended the EWR RoadShow (and got up to speak twice)..
A UAL 756 FO out of NYC got up and stated that "This TA Sucks. But I am Voting Yes"...
How should any of us view that?
He went on about not having a raise for many years, "fear" of the NMB and the unknown.. and for wanting to move forward, with a unified pilot group.
I'm sorry, but it will be hard to be a Unified Pilot group going forward if this thing passes. I'm being honest.
I've heard the statement that "If it passes, it's because of the UAL Pilots, and if it fails, it's because of the CAL Pilots".
Not sure how much truth is in that but my gut tells me that those sentiments may hold true.
Only thing to add is.. if it fails, we know that there will be another deal on the table. The unknown is when. 2 Months, 6 months, ?
But for that period of time, the "CAL" pilots will take the blame. OK.
But if it passes, I think the UAL pilots will take the blame for the next 6-7 years~
Again, just my opinion.
Motch
PS> I like your Citibank Mortgage rate comment. What about this- UAL needs labor peace to get better interest rates, moving forward. Isn't that some leverage too?
And what are we asking for that is so unreasonable??
Remove LOA25
Increase Retro/Lump Sum.
Revisit PayBands and adjust Payrates closer to Delta at DOS!
Tighten up Scope Language (with regards to B717 type Aircraft/Pay)
I'm glad you are not Voting YES out of Fear. If you truly believe this is a great TA, or that there is nothing you can do to make it better.. then there is nothing anyone is going to say that will make you change your mind.
I attended the EWR RoadShow (and got up to speak twice)..
A UAL 756 FO out of NYC got up and stated that "This TA Sucks. But I am Voting Yes"...
How should any of us view that?
He went on about not having a raise for many years, "fear" of the NMB and the unknown.. and for wanting to move forward, with a unified pilot group.
I'm sorry, but it will be hard to be a Unified Pilot group going forward if this thing passes. I'm being honest.
I've heard the statement that "If it passes, it's because of the UAL Pilots, and if it fails, it's because of the CAL Pilots".
Not sure how much truth is in that but my gut tells me that those sentiments may hold true.
Only thing to add is.. if it fails, we know that there will be another deal on the table. The unknown is when. 2 Months, 6 months, ?
But for that period of time, the "CAL" pilots will take the blame. OK.
But if it passes, I think the UAL pilots will take the blame for the next 6-7 years~
Again, just my opinion.
Motch
PS> I like your Citibank Mortgage rate comment. What about this- UAL needs labor peace to get better interest rates, moving forward. Isn't that some leverage too?
And what are we asking for that is so unreasonable??
Remove LOA25
Increase Retro/Lump Sum.
Revisit PayBands and adjust Payrates closer to Delta at DOS!
Tighten up Scope Language (with regards to B717 type Aircraft/Pay)
It passes, we move on. It fails, we move on. Blaming someone doesn't do any good and only proves to be a hindrance.
I might very well end up on the wrong side of the vote, but I trust the pilots I have flown with for almost two decades. We might disagree, but life moves on and I'm confident I will enjoy the balance of my career sharing a cockpit with them, cal pilots included. That in itself, will build strength.
12-11-2012, 07:13 PM
#43
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 42
I am going to throw another objection out about this thread.
"This is a superb update from true unionists."
You know what I only read and hear this type of thing from NO voters and I find it objectionable.
First I would like to challenge the poster of this statement to define "true unionist" for me.
This TA was produced by men and women who are more "true unionist" people than the poster of this comment. How do I know that? Because they are there doing the work and committing untold thousands of hours of personal un-rewarded time for your sake.
Of course let's take it a step further and ask the question, how long have you been part of this union or any other union for that matter? Have you walked the picket line, have you paid assessments to support other who are on strike, have you volunteered to serve the needs of others no extra monetary reward or do you just pull this "true unionist" card out when you don't like what these men and women have produced on your behalf?
Disagree, politic to change things and vote no, but resort to personal attacks and veiled threats? No that's not "true unionism"that's nothing more than being a thug.
On Saturday "true unionist" will have had their say and we will move forward regardless of the result.
"This is a superb update from true unionists."
You know what I only read and hear this type of thing from NO voters and I find it objectionable.
First I would like to challenge the poster of this statement to define "true unionist" for me.
This TA was produced by men and women who are more "true unionist" people than the poster of this comment. How do I know that? Because they are there doing the work and committing untold thousands of hours of personal un-rewarded time for your sake.
Of course let's take it a step further and ask the question, how long have you been part of this union or any other union for that matter? Have you walked the picket line, have you paid assessments to support other who are on strike, have you volunteered to serve the needs of others no extra monetary reward or do you just pull this "true unionist" card out when you don't like what these men and women have produced on your behalf?
Disagree, politic to change things and vote no, but resort to personal attacks and veiled threats? No that's not "true unionism"that's nothing more than being a thug.
On Saturday "true unionist" will have had their say and we will move forward regardless of the result.
Lightly edited for format. This is a superb update from true unionists. I hope my L UAL bros will read this and take heart that many, many of us at Cal are 100% with you in our joint fight against the real enemy - management!
In no way was I suggesting that our unionists are better than your unionists and I certainly was not suggesting that I am the sole arbiter of the mantle of "True Unionist." Not at all.
The fact is, I read a lot of talk from some L-UAL guys on this board who believe that Cal guys are content to sit back and let the company whipsaw you out of existence. My point in posting this update was to show that many of us - including the IAH reps in particular - are AGAINST THAT!
12-11-2012, 07:28 PM
#44
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Really?! Here's what I actually said before I pasted the update from Eric and Ben:
Lightly edited for format. This is a superb update from true unionists. I hope my L UAL bros will read this and take heart that many, many of us at Cal are 100% with you in our joint fight against the real enemy - management!
In no way was I suggesting that our unionists are better than your unionists and I certainly was not suggesting that I am the sole arbiter of the mantle of "True Unionist." Not at all.
The fact is, I read a lot of talk from some L-UAL guys on this board who believe that Cal guys are content to sit back and let the company whipsaw you out of existence. My point in posting this update was to show that many of us - including the IAH reps in particular - are AGAINST THAT!
Lightly edited for format. This is a superb update from true unionists. I hope my L UAL bros will read this and take heart that many, many of us at Cal are 100% with you in our joint fight against the real enemy - management!
In no way was I suggesting that our unionists are better than your unionists and I certainly was not suggesting that I am the sole arbiter of the mantle of "True Unionist." Not at all.
The fact is, I read a lot of talk from some L-UAL guys on this board who believe that Cal guys are content to sit back and let the company whipsaw you out of existence. My point in posting this update was to show that many of us - including the IAH reps in particular - are AGAINST THAT!
I was surprised to see that Ben has vowed to resign from CAL if there is any flying taken from the LUAL pilots. Considering we have no instructors to teach the 737-900's which are coming in August, if the TA fails he will probably want to rethink that promise.
12-11-2012, 08:21 PM
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
So you won't go to a roadshow, you won't read any union information (unless it agrees with your position, which you decided on before you even saw the TA)? But you want us to respect your opinion? Nope. You lost me when you said that.
Next you say that the company has a history of delays. Yet you expect them to magically come to a deal immediately?
ALPA will poll is immediately. SO WHAT? Does that get you a new deal? Think man!! This company is thrilled to let us sit without a contract. They have proved that for 3 years.
Lastly, because I'm out of time, is your $100 million retro improvement. Well, you need to have a TA within 60 days or you actually LOSE money on that "deal".
Next you say that the company has a history of delays. Yet you expect them to magically come to a deal immediately?
ALPA will poll is immediately. SO WHAT? Does that get you a new deal? Think man!! This company is thrilled to let us sit without a contract. They have proved that for 3 years.
Lastly, because I'm out of time, is your $100 million retro improvement. Well, you need to have a TA within 60 days or you actually LOSE money on that "deal".
I have started a thread entitled "Misleading Union Info" in which I have pointed out some of the things in the CrewNews that are misleading, and also the lastest MEC UAL Blastmail.. but I guess you missed that too.
My point is that I will most likely not be involved going forward. Again, read my post as to why.
Or don't.. I don't really care~
Motch
12-11-2012, 08:43 PM
#47
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Motch,
It passes, we move on. It fails, we move on. Blaming someone doesn't do any good and only proves to be a hindrance.
I might very well end up on the wrong side of the vote, but I trust the pilots I have flown with for almost two decades. We might disagree, but life moves on and I'm confident I will enjoy the balance of my career sharing a cockpit with them, cal pilots included. That in itself, will build strength.
It passes, we move on. It fails, we move on. Blaming someone doesn't do any good and only proves to be a hindrance.
I might very well end up on the wrong side of the vote, but I trust the pilots I have flown with for almost two decades. We might disagree, but life moves on and I'm confident I will enjoy the balance of my career sharing a cockpit with them, cal pilots included. That in itself, will build strength.
That being said, I've always heard that the UAL Pilots looked down on Scabs, and/or people without ALPA Pins. Going forward, that might be a huge issue.. especially if/when pilots make it known they Voted NO.
Again, all we have to do is show up and do our job. Nothing says we have to be buddy buddy.
Having spoken to a few pilots that will be affected by LOA25.. they are not to happy with the possible outcome. Think they are going to be giddy and happy when this is all done and said. And these are UAL Pilots!
Reality is, we probably won't be mixing crews until the Fall of 2013 at the earliest. Once the mega bid happens and we mix and match sometime in 2014 the "fun'' will really begin. That's when I expect the "Approval to Fake Deadhead on the last leg" will really start to rear it's ugly head.
No worries, I live local. I have to deadhead back to EWR. Just won't be pretty for the commuters trying to get home.
Either way, I have an IPad, I have an IPhone and I can keep myself busy. And I can live with the fact that I did all I could to make a change.
Merry Christmas and all the Best~
Motch
PS> I've already identified myself and have actually met UAL Pilots who have commented that they have seen me on the Forums and/or know me through mutual friends. It is a small world out there. I'm not gonna hide or run away from anyone. Just gonna chill and do my own thing.
12-12-2012, 05:02 AM
#49
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Um.. I know you have read my posts on other threads, and I've even posted one on here... so I would have thought that you would have known that I HAVE gone to the EWR RoadShow... got up to the mic twice to ask a few questions.
I have started a thread entitled "Misleading Union Info" in which I have pointed out some of the things in the CrewNews that are misleading, and also the lastest MEC UAL Blastmail.. but I guess you missed that too.
My point is that I will most likely not be involved going forward. Again, read my post as to why.
Or don't.. I don't really care~
Motch
I have started a thread entitled "Misleading Union Info" in which I have pointed out some of the things in the CrewNews that are misleading, and also the lastest MEC UAL Blastmail.. but I guess you missed that too.
My point is that I will most likely not be involved going forward. Again, read my post as to why.
Or don't.. I don't really care~
Motch
You make some good, rational points in your arguments. I don't always agree with them, but I can understand your positions
My apologies Motch
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